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I don't know who pioneered the starts around 0.46. He's using the bottom E string most of the time and (mostly) one chord per beat. The bass moves around a lot, but notice the chord shape remains more or less constant. He seems to be using a Maj 6 shape with occasional very small finger shifts to change chord, probably between a dominant 9 and diminished, or even dominant #9. There is remarkable economy here. There appears to be a lot of half step above and below the root note and chord, and it's not clear (to me at least) that roots are always used. The Maj 6 shape can substitute for minor 9 so you'd be using an inversion. It can also be used as a dominant 13. So you could use the one shape for a II V I progression. However, you'd have to use plenty of half steps, which could lead to its over-use. Playing as quietly as Martin does may overcome some of that over-use, especially of the passing chord is more bass than chord. It's also probably where the dim and dom 9 come into play. I am fascinated by the economy this style brings and wondered if anyone could shed further light?
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09-21-2017 03:55 AM
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Man, I really need to spend some serious time zoning in on Andreas Oberg! Martin is great too but I have somehow heard more of him than Andreas. Wonderful clip, thanks for posting.
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I think Whit Smith's "Chordination" video is a really great introduction to this style.
I do think that in terms of walking bass, if you want to craft good, authentic sounding lines, it's important to listen to and study the masters: Ron Carter, Sam Jones, Ray Brown, etc. A lot of guitarists sound pretty bad playing walking bass because it's very easy to overuse chromatic movement.
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Yes, I've studied bass players and play bass ...not well though. Playing interesting bass lines with chords is harder particularly if you are trying to keep in the lower register. The point of the post, however, it not walking bass lines, but economy of playing and feel. You'll see Martin is not leaping up and down, and his chords shapes show remarkable economy of finger movement. This gives him the freedom to keep the bass and harmony fluid and moving together. I don't know where he gets that. Ike Isaacs, Ivor Mairants maybe. Bucky Pizzarelli is the same generation and did something similar. You can hear it a little in John Pizzarelli (son) too. Howard Paul (Benedetto) does a bass line strum and with a little upstroke. Very effective. You can see he leads with his second finger but then slips into just bass and drops chords altogether.
Originally Posted by pcsanwald
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Sorry, don't know what happened with the other vids. Here's Howard Paul. starts around 4.21 mins
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Sorry, this post got messed up big time. I wrote a something on the Howard Alden video which completely disappeared. He is doing a similar thing. He leads with his second finger so we see that Maj 6 shape, but then drops the harmony and just plays bass. He can do that because he's on a seven string. Howard is old school and played banjo. The earlier players would take a chordal type solo and it would be one chord per beat. A challenge even for today's better players.
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I remember Jim Hall talking about this...he said with a good strong bassline, you can get away with a lot on the chord stabs...
A very fun way to play--when there's no bassist!
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Jeff, yes a good walking bass line goes a long way. But there's so much more going on here. I'm being too lazy to figure it all out but the chords are moving with the bass i.e. the chords changes with every beat. Ordinarily, that is almost impossible to do due to awkward leaps etc. So it's good use of substitutes, chromatics, and finding the path of least resistance to keep it all fluid. Ultimately, the goal is to provide good accompaniment and getting too fancy, or compromising too much might get you some funny looks. Martin Taylor will have a vast knowledge of harmony from his solo playing, and he seems to be putting that to good use here. It's also about his sensitivity i.e. volume and effortless delivery. It's a rare skill.
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Basic stuff I do:
1. Slide the target chord around a fret below or above, sometimes two frets.
2. Approach a chord with a 7th, say this shape 7X67XX as an E7, also used for a dim7 chord
3. Move between inversions of the same chord with the above-mentioned shape. E.g.:
3X44XX
4X34XX
5X45XX
6X56XX
7X57XX
That is G Maj7, followed by Abdim7, D7, Bbdim7, finally G Major. Works from a G7 chord too.
4. ii/V in F could be:
3X33XX
5X55XX
6X67XX
7X78XX
8X89XX
which is Gm Am Bb7 B7 C7
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Christian do you have any videos of you demonstrating your approach? Your videos are very clear! Originally Posted by christianm77
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I'll do one now!
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Cool, this is one of those areas there's not a whole lot of instruction out there about... Originally Posted by christianm77
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Graham and Rob, those are great examples but using mostly three note chords. The principles could be applied to block chords I guess, but the economy is already embedded so why would you bother. Christian, much closer. Good effort. Martin's approach is economical and the advantage is presumably he can apply it at any tempo. I think he is likely using some of the things you use, but is avoiding certain shapes that force the fingers into major reshuffles, which can be tiring.
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Martin is pretty mega but he doesn't play with a plectrum.
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Actually he is using a pick in the video the OP posted. It's hard to hear exactly what Martin is doing, but I would say what Christian demonstrated is the usual way of playing this type of comping. Maybe Martin is occasionally adding some upper notes as well to the basic 3-note shell voicings, it sounded like it to me. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Cool I shall check it out... Originally Posted by grahambop
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Are we talking about something more then leading into a chord chromatically with a chord of the same quality that a half step above or below and that is played on the upbeat prior to the chord change?
And of 4—F#M7
downbeat of 1 —GM7
and of 2–Eb7
Downbeat of three —E7
and of 4 Ab-7
Downbeat of one —A-7
and of 2 —Db7
Downbeat of three —D7
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Never thought about it. Guess I use my thumb, though. (Maybe b/c the sound is less trebly?)
Seems like more trouble to jump around with the pick from bass to chords. Maybe I'm wrong...
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Yes, it's more than just half steps using the same chord, and it's downbeats, 1,2 ,3, 4. On the upbeat you may hear a slight upstroke occasionally. There is a lot more going on here, but it's probably quite simple. The key is the economy playing. Originally Posted by NSJ
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You can use a pick and fingerstyle together, but you lose the use of your index so your pinky must be added if you want four notes to ring out. Or, you play bass on down strokes and chords on upstroke. However, the style uses a strum, or downstroke at the same time so bass and chords are happening at the same time. Originally Posted by fasstrack
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You play jazz guitar, and by the sounds of it you are British, and you don't know that. Come on dude! Did you even listen to the video you commented on. Yes, he is well known for solo playing. He has, however, played as much if not more in a normal setting. Aside from the Grapelli years and more recent duos, he had a huge hit with his Spirit of Django recordings, in which he demonstrates his very singular and lyrical single line playing. He is up there with the best of them, and you should really check out his playing. Originally Posted by christianm77
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One day I'll get around to figuring out what he's doing. For the moment, the big takeaway for me is the economy, or effortlessness and fluidity of this style. Economy of playing means minimal effort while achieving the same effect as more complex, dense or literal playing. It frees you up to concentrate on feel and driving the rhythm for the soloist. I don't think what Martin is doing is especially complicated, but as someone pointed out it is hard to hear what is going on in this video. There are, though, a couple of useful secrets hidden in there somewhere to add to the toolbox.
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No i didn't actually, as was pointed out above. My bad.
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I guess. I'm really not analytical about that stuff. Too much to think about, and I'm an ear, not technical, player. If it comes out and the time and changes are clear to whoever I'm accompanying, outlines them and isn't in the way then it IS good... Originally Posted by vsaumarez
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