I do like a nice whole tone, but it's a bit like lime pickle - a little goes a long way (unless you are my wife)
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I do like a nice whole tone, but it's a bit like lime pickle - a little goes a long way (unless you are my wife)
@djg Ab dominant are you talking about improvisation or harmony?
This thread is focussed on the harmonic system of BH's teaching.
Yes, I admit I was more asking about how Barry Harris looks at augmented triads for harmonic reasons. I do acknowledge that I said "whole tones scales" as well, and I appreciate the discussion on those.
Pat Martino talks about the augmented triad as a parent for certain harmonic sounds which he then uses to create substitutions and voice leading. There seems to be a lot of overlap, and I was wondering if there was something similar in the Barry Harris system to the dim chord blended with the Maj6 chord, for example using aug triads and major triads blended. Does he talk about blending an aug chord with another chord to form a usable scale? Is the G7#5 a Gaug with a "borrowed note"? Does Barry address the four families of aug triads in a similar way as he addresses the three dim families?
I inserted my question in the middle of @WILSON1 question, so I apologize for possibly distracting from that and I've been trying to wait my turn.
I ask genuinely as I know the Ab dominant is the choice for soloing (it's what I use)but not sure what the choice is for the 6th dim scales. I was thinking Ebm6-dim but not 100% certain.
Going by Alan's book, I think both Christian's and djg's suggestions are ok for a non-resolving Ab7, as follows:
Ebmin6/dim (page 19)
Ab7b5/dim (page 4)
Ab7/dim (page 4).
Son of a gun...I think you've got one of those "little things" Barry keeps referring to...
...and that puts a min6 on the b7 of the dominant of the key...I think you mentioned that before.
And I think you've got the mystery chord in that CODA too...
Attachment 44845
When I'm writing things like this out for my own benefit, I tend to write 2 chord names if necessary, i.e. the actual 'functioning' name and then the 'Barry Harris' chord name in brackets after it.
So here I would probably put Cm11b5 (Ebm6 9).
It's a bit cumbersome, but it helps me see what the chord actually is 'in context' and also how I got there from a BH voicing. I find this helps me apply the same idea more easily in future, in other tunes or keys.
I think what fuzzthebee meant was play Bb7/dim when the actual underlying chord is Ab7. It should give some kind of Ab13#11 sound. I tried this and it sounded interesting, although played 'in isolation' my ear insisted on trying to hear it as Bb7. I'm not sure it really matters much what the associated Dim chords are, I think the ear accepts just about any Dim chord over anything as long as you don't hang on it, but move off it to go somewhere else.
Anyway it opens up interesting possibilities that maybe there are some other cool subs of maj6 or min6 chords which work over a different chord (I mean in addition to those mentioned in the book).
we could probably "justify" something like that using BH terms since between the b3, b2, and "related dim" we have every dim chord acceptable in every key with only the loose rules of related goes to one, b3 goes to 1 or 2, and b2 goes to 2
Alan calls them i dim, iv dim, and v dim but that was more of just a "why not call them..."
Yes, right. I didn't mean to sound condescending ( I know it can happen when we are not facing each other.)..
...but use of the dim on the II of the dominant scale is just what we are getting here with AK's book.
Prior to this I would usually play the dim on the third ( sounding as a 7 b9). I was not conscious of the dim on the IV.
Also, I like your ideas on labeling chords on the chart...I can see that will be helpful, thanks.
One thing I took away from a BH workshop class in NYC was that every chromatic tone BETWEEN the dim scale tones were usable for soloing.
This was a part of a "synthetic scale" lecture and I can tell you that Howard Alden wasn't too cool with it when I brought it up at one of his workshops.
That voicing can legitimately be thought of as multiple functions. Dan Haerle calls them 'Magic Voicings' - http://www.danhaerle.com/magic%20voicings.pdf. With C in the bass, it can be Cm11b5, D13, Ab7#5#9, Abm6/9, CMaj7#11, Gbm7b5, E Aeolian, or B Phrygian. Fyi, Barry Greene has a great lesson on his site - he calls it the 'Secret Jazz Chord'. :-)
regards to all
Attachment 44876
Something for my finger style friends.
OK Joe..I'll be reviewing that!
Thank you.
This doesn't seem right to me. Are you confusing some of these chords?
Aren't we talking about the voicing starting with C, Gb, Bb and F?
If that is the case the chords options would be Cmillb5, D7#9#5, Ab13, Ebmi6/9, Gbma7#11
If you're referencing another chord, my apologies. [emoji16]
my bad! I was thinking of Haerle's alternate fingering which is C, Gb, B, & E and that does provide the chords I listed. Using the C, Gb, Bb, & F fingering you're absolutely correct. Apologies if I've added to the confusion. :grumpy: