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Originally Posted by plasticpigeon
Well, you can call me SLOW...but it would have been a long time before I chose the harmonics in the example we are discussing here.
I mean I would have hit it eventually, through "inspection" (you know, like a monkey with a typewriter).
But this system gives me a big head start.
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07-25-2017 08:01 AM
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Gosh, I wasn't calling anyone slow! In fact all this stuff is very complicated, hats off to you if you can dig in deep enough to clearly understand all this analysis. I know that my weakness is not in lack of understanding of music theory, not that I am particularly well versed, but that my weakness is in not being able to hear and distinguish harmony very well, and thus I find it hard to create music on the fly, whether melody or harmony. I wonder if others are in the same boat, and whether the extra sophistication in understanding of theory is really beneficial to making music.
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The theory is to give you more ideas and choices; the playing and ear development comes from hours of drilling the idea after you understand it Originally Posted by plasticpigeon
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(My use of bold.) Originally Posted by joe2758
What gets wrought from ideas and choices is a 'bird in the hand'.
(That thought motivates me to keep trying to find the time and the freedom to concentrate on those ideas.)
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Sorry, but I can't figure out the tab - and I'd like to be able follow. Could someone please clue me in? Originally Posted by WILSON 1
I thought the top line of tab represented the top (thinnest) string and the bottom one the lowest, and the numbers corresponded to frets - but that doesn't seem to match what's above on the stave.
Thanks in advance!Last edited by destinytot; 07-25-2017 at 09:27 AM.
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It's actually quite simple in concept. Barry just adds one note (Ab) to the C major scale, from this you can harmonise each degree of the resulting 8-note scale. Every chord you get is then a sixth chord or a diminished chord. The minor version is almost the same, you just lower the E to Eb. Originally Posted by plasticpigeon
From this you can get almost any chord you like (see post no. 28 in this thread), and it's easy to move between them, all from basically just learning sixth chord and diminished chord inversions.
It makes harmonizing a melody or playing a chord solo much easier, it makes solo guitar easier, and it adds a lot more interesting choices and movement to comping.
So for me, I don't see it so much as theory, more as a very helpful practical method.Last edited by grahambop; 07-25-2017 at 09:51 AM.
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Just glancing, it looks to be mostly correct, but maybe with "enharmonic issues". Originally Posted by destinytot
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I hear what you're saying, but this kind of thing assumes a kind of "theory as a way to think about playing or what to think while playing", and that's not the purpose of this kind of thing. Theoretical is about figuring out what to SHED . You still have to work it out . Much of the time the fingers teach the ears and vice versa . Eventually, you learn to hear it in a holistic way and play without "thinking" so much, but you don't need to always begin with what you can already hear/understand, do you? Originally Posted by plasticpigeon
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Just looked at the first chord, and this is without guitar in hand, but it looks like the top two notes match but the bottom two are not the same between the tab and notation Originally Posted by destinytot
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You are clearly evil and wrong. Persecute the heretic!!!!! Originally Posted by plasticpigeon
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WHOA! Sorry, brother you are correct! That first chord should have an F not a D. The tab is correct. Originally Posted by destinytot
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I should have TRIPLE checked Finale. Hope it didn't throw anybody.
It's really the third chord and how to build it using BH method I'm looking for.
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Hard not to respond with snark, so here goes as straight an answer as I can: Originally Posted by plasticpigeon
Music theory is constantly evolving as new musical ideas are being developed. But in the end it is the way one musician communicates to other musicians how he organizes his thoughts and approaches playing and composing music. I know of no musician who mindlessly makes great music by plugging in an "algorithm", and so there is no theory I know of where one musician explains how he did that. How Bach organized his thoughts to produce music in the baroque period may or may not aid you in making music. But I'm pretty sure he didn't just plug in an algorithm, so I doubt you could study baroque counterpoint and discover an algorithm that will allow you to compose great music in that style.
Barry Harris both lived during the time bebop was being developed AND has an amazing mind for organizing and systematizing the music they were playing. Other musicians of the period have described their thinking differently, or have been incapable of communicating it at all. Many people, myself included, have found Barry Harris' approach for organizing and thinking about music very helpful. He remains incredibly influential BECAUSE people find it useful. It has simplified modern jazz harmony for me, and quickly given me practical tools for making music. It has been so powerful and impactful on my playing that now I hunger for a similar tools for single line improvising.
That said, you are probably right that this isn't worth it for you to put your energy or thought into. Barry Harris does not teach an "algorithm" that you can just plug in and have great music come out. You will still have to have an ear, something to say musically, technical proficiency, and dedication.
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I thought it was the 4th chord you were after? If so, wzpgsr had some suggestions in post no. 282. Originally Posted by WILSON 1
I should have TRIPLE checked Finale. Hope it didn't throw anybody.
It's really the third chord and how to build it using BH method I'm looking for.
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yeah the third chord is just a dimninished 7. The fourth chord might have started as Eb 6 with the 6th in the bass, then the flat 6th borrowed for the 6th and 2nd borrowed for the 3rd
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Nice work wzpgsr !! I'm really liking that move !! Originally Posted by wzpgsr
INVERT the soprano voice in root position of G#min6
muting the root G# and sounding the borrowed Bb at the same time !!
IMHO stroke of genius.
Last edited by WILSON 1; 07-25-2017 at 06:30 PM.
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Not at all - thanks for putting it out there. I swear, this is gold - great thread. Originally Posted by WILSON 1
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so i literally just got a copy two days ago..... pretty far behind to say the least. Love the vibe you cats have going on here, just reading you guys talk about it, it's like rocket science or something!
You guys are kickin ass here, very inspired. I also just graduated from University (Studied Jazz) only started really playing and studying jazz when i started. Best decision of my life. I hope to make a couple of inputs once i start catching up.
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here it is, as per requested!
hope you guys get what im trying to explain hahaha.
let me know if you have a problem viewing the vid.
Cheers,
Oz
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Not sure if this is a help...from pg 66 CD trk 67...across the board.
I believe patterns 3 & 6 are going to be important for us.
While still reviewing earlier chapters, I'm looking into the scale section of the book; pg 64 and up.
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Anyone have a good suggestion for using the dim6 chords for smoothly moving up or down a whole step. E.g. a tune that is modulating from Eb to Db?
I realize I have good options for moving up/down fourths, major thirds, minor third, etc. But I am not happy with the move of a step from major to major tonalities. I have to move four voices a step, and all my ideas sound clunky. I am trying to use the magic of the dim6 chords to get me smoother voice leading.
I'm mostly working on drop2 on the middle strings, but I'd love to see ideas for drop2 on the treble strings, drop3 on the 6th or 5th strings, etc.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Do you have a tune in mind?
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Cherokee
First two bars set up an easy transition from B to Eb. But then we do this detour in bar 6 to Db for a couple of bars. That is the most troubling for me.
Obviously in the B section we move through B->A->G-> thing as well.
It's not that I can't get there, I'm just not very satisfied. It feels abrupt. Step wise all four voices? Boring. Eb6->Ebo->Db6? My ear is expecting Ab6....
Hoping someone has a cool move to share.Last edited by rlrhett; 08-06-2017 at 12:26 AM.
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Standard changes are: Bars 5 and 6 = Eb, bars 7 and 8 = Ab7. I'm not sure where you're getting Db from?
Moving from Eb6/dim to Ebmin6/dim is how I would do it.Last edited by grahambop; 08-06-2017 at 04:43 AM.
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Cherokee is usually played fast, so if comping with one chord per bar, using BH chords you could do something like this for the first 8 bars:
x1303x Bb6
x3424x Adim
x5656x Fm6 (Bb7)
x5646x Ddim (Bb7)
xx1313 Eb6
x5646x Ddim
x3434x Ebm6 (Ab7)
x6757x Ebdim (Ab7)
Then back to Bb6 for bar 9, e.g.
x5536xLast edited by grahambop; 08-06-2017 at 06:22 AM.
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