freddie green voicings

Sailor · #1 09-11-2008, 04:25 PM

I know these are simple but humor me. It seems like whether these voicing are on the 6th or 5th string they're MOSTLY R-7-3 right?

Second, in an ensemble doesn't the root interfere with the Bass player?

Third, I would love to see a simple standard, (Summertime, Stormy Weather, Fly me to the Moon,...etc) written out with Freddie Green voicings so I can start applying these to a lot of my standards.

Thanks Sailor

m78w · #2 09-11-2008, 04:58 PM

Yep they're either R-7-3 or R-3-7 chords on the 5th and 6th strings. If you are strumming them they tend to be cool with a bass player, as long as your volume is at or below the bass players volume.

MW

Stackabones · #3 09-11-2008, 05:41 PM

There has been some speculation that FG may have been playing one note chords.

From the same site ... interesting quotes about the one note chords.

Quote:

Guitar One: "Your playing style tends to be sparse, minimalist, but every now and then you whip into Freddie Green style comping"

Frisell: "Very momentarily. There are guys who really can do it, and who can keep it going, whereas I do it in little gestures, for four bars or so at a time. One of the first systematic things I did when I got into jazz was to go through chord inversions on the 6th, 4th, 3rd, and 2nd strings. You hit the whole chord but the 5th and 1st strings don't ring. I started out with major 7th, dominant 7th, and minor 7b5 chord inversions. If I play an Fmaj7 in the lowest position with the root on the bottom, the next inversion would be with the 3rd on the bottom, and so forth. You can also connect these inversions with bass notes from an F major scale. Freddie Green often wasn't hitting whole chords, but rather single notes."

Sailor · #4 09-11-2008, 08:50 PM

I dig that article Stackabones. I read it before and wondered how legit the interpretation was. I was wondering if you would play FG voicings all through a song or just use them in certain sections??

I would still like to see a score of a standard done in FG style.

Sailor

Stackabones · #5 09-11-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor

I dig that article Stackabones. I read it before and wondered how legit the interpretation was. I was wondering if you would play FG voicings all through a song or just use them in certain sections??

I think it's pretty legit, considering that the website seems to be affiliated with FG. I think you could use the voicings (either one-note or shell) all the way through a tune. When I watch vids of Count Basie, that's what FG does.

Quote:

I would still like to see a score of a standard done in FG style.

Just open a fake book and play through changes using the concepts outlined in the article.

John Curran · #6 09-11-2008, 10:08 PM

Cool article Stackabones, thanx for posting

Stackabones · #7 09-11-2008, 11:24 PM

hot ford coupe · #8 09-18-2008, 01:08 AM

I've seen some transcriptions of FG's work on one of the websites dedicated to him. Johnny Pizzarelli also discusses how FG did his stuff. He played a lot of 2 and 1 note chords but fingered the 3 note chord and did some muting so he got the percussive sound along with whatever note he was leading with. It's simple when you think of it but much harder in practice especially with fast tunes like Basie did.

Jake Hanlon · #9 09-18-2008, 06:39 AM

Freddie did R 7 3 stuff and would not have the root in the bass of his voicing every time. Long extended parts of a chord he would invert up and down the instrument.

As for mixing with the bass... in a big band about 4 guys are playing the root anyway (trombone 4, Bari, Piano, Bass and probably a trumpet somewhere). You'll just be joining the masses

hot ford coupe · #10 09-18-2008, 02:39 PM

Jake, you're exactly right. If there was one thing Freddie knew well was his chord inversions all over the neck. That's why I consider him the best rhythm guitarist ever. Most times I try not to over play the root. It makes the sound too "vanilla". The other thing he had was a fantastic sense of timing.

Gareth · #11 07-28-2009, 11:55 AM

Can someone recommend me a good book about Freddie Green's technique?

manu68 · #12 07-28-2009, 02:49 PM

Mickey baker jazz guiter method get in this direction I think.

moveable chords with root on 6th and 5th string.
One strum every beat.

m6, m7, M7, M6,...
almost no barre chords.

A lot of common points with freddie green, isn't it ???

hot ford coupe · #13 07-28-2009, 04:19 PM

I saw a book the last time I was at Gruhn Guitars. It was called Playing Rhythm The Ranger Doug Way written by Doug Green (No relation to Freddie) of Riders in the Sky. The music is more Western Swing oriented but the principles are the same. I believe it talks about inversions, passing chords and substitutions. I've watched Ranger Doug on You Tube and tried to see how he put his fingers down. I would start there and then go to some of the Freddie Green sites. As a side note, if you look on the Gruhn site ( I can't afford to buy guitars from there anymore but I go when I get really depressed) , there is a refinished 1950 Stromberg that Ranger Doug played. I got to play it and I didn't want to go home that day. There was also a 1941 Stromberg Deluxe that was at Gruhn's for no longer than 24 hours (before it got scarfed up) and had the chance to play that one too. Now I've had the opportunity to play a number of D'Angelico guitars and this Stromberg blew them away as far as loudness and tone hands dwon. When you played Freddie Green chords, you could actually feel the pulse like a heart beat. It went right through you. Now I know why Freddie liked his so much. I just wish I could have bought the thing on that day but at the 5 figure price tag, it just wasn't on the cards.

manu68 · #14 07-29-2009, 12:48 AM

not a book but some informations

"Freddie Green: Birth of a Style"

don.stanley · #15 07-29-2009, 03:50 AM

This is a useful starter
Basic Jazz Rhythm Guitar: Comping in the Freddie Green Style - Sheet Music Plus

GodinFan · #16 07-29-2009, 06:43 AM

I used a book by Charlton Johnson called "Swing & Big Band Guitar - Four to the Bar Comping in the Style of Freddie Green" to get my big band rhythm guitar chops together.

Most of the voicings use the 6-4-3-2 string set. 5th and 1st string are almost never used in the text.

bobsguitars09 · #17 07-30-2009, 12:26 PM

What do I need to know to be able to comp ala freddie green in any key?

GodinFan · #18 07-30-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobsguitars09

What do I need to know to be able to comp ala freddie green in any key?

Try here...

bobsguitars09 · #19 07-30-2009, 11:12 PM

as far as I can tell.. you just follow the Root Chord/7 Chord/3 Chord?

so in C it would kind of be

CMAJ7/Bm7b5(dim) and Em7?

GodinFan · #20 07-30-2009, 11:55 PM

I've attached a PDF.

It shows a simple progression in G, with the actual voicing I'd likely play.

Many times I'll mute the 2nd string as well, so just the 6-4-3 set sound. Same voicings work.

manu68 · #21 07-31-2009, 01:18 AM

I am not sure I understand the question.
I agree with bobsguitar09, because freddie green uses moveable chords.
This is what make it "easy" to play in all keys.
It plays with chord forms , and the chord itself is given by the root on the 6th or 5th string.

Allright or not ??

SteveCarter · #22 07-31-2009, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor

I know these are simple but humor me. It seems like whether these voicing are on the 6th or 5th string they're MOSTLY R-7-3 right?

Second, in an ensemble doesn't the root interfere with the Bass player?

Third, I would love to see a simple standard, (Summertime, Stormy Weather, Fly me to the Moon,...etc) written out with Freddie Green voicings so I can start applying these to a lot of my standards.

Thanks Sailor

Here's an example:
www.frogstoryrecords.com/lesson_easy_living_comp.html

Steve

Julius · #23 04-16-2010, 10:17 AM

Hi,

I hope somebody can help me!
I want to fine Charlton Johnson rhythmic comping figures.

If you know please help me to find it.

Thank you,

Julius.gyuszi@gmail.com

GodinFan · #24 04-16-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julius

Hi,

I hope somebody can help me!
I want to fine Charlton Johnson rhythmic comping figures.

If you know please help me to find it.

Thank you,

Julius.gyuszi@gmail.com

You're in Toronto, so just call the main Long & McQuade store on Bloor St.

If they don't have it, they can certainly get it for you. I ordered mine through the Stratford store, and got it fairly promptly.

manu68 · #25 04-19-2010, 08:25 AM

The book from Charlton Johnson is very nice.
There is a Cd with it. Very centered on one domain, but very nice.

bass2man · #26 04-19-2010, 09:29 PM

Sailor:

Just noticed that this is an old post but I hope you are getting along in your Freddie Green comping..

Here is a little ditty from TV land you can whistle along with that I tabbed out not to long ago...

TommyD · #27 04-20-2010, 08:24 AM

There's a story about Freddie Green, that he never wanted to play with amplification. Basie bugged him about it, and he resisted as long as he could. Finally the pressure got too great and he bought an amplifier. He showed up with it every night, set it up, plugged his guitar in, and smiled at Basie. But he never plugged in the amp! Basie never knew and was happy, thinking that his guitarist was amplified. True? Who knows?

T/

brad4d8 · #28 04-20-2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hot ford coupe

Now I've had the opportunity to play a number of D'Angelico guitars and this Stromberg blew them away as far as loudness and tone hands dwon. When you played Freddie Green chords, you could actually feel the pulse like a heart beat. It went right through you. Now I know why Freddie liked his so much. I just wish I could have bought the thing on that day but at the 5 figure price tag, it just wasn't on the cards.

It's amazing t me how much difference any real good acoustic archtop makes for swing rhythms. I've had a number of good archtops over the years, 40s Epi Zephyr Deluxe Regent, 60s Country Gent, Ibanez "lawsuit" 175, etc. The first time I played my Artist Award, it almost begged to be played with swing rhythms, seemed to play itself. I can only imagine what one of those Strombergs must be like.
Brad