Developing a better harmonic memory

[Dimitri]

I am a young struggling professional musician in LA, and in attempts to find work, I find myself sitting in at a lot of gigs of different styles. 90% of the time I don't know the tune called, which is fine because I have pretty good ears. There's always a keyboard player so I'm free to do little chordal fills-- but without always knowing the exact root motion.

So I'm wondering how to get better at detected harmonic motion quickly in a jam setting-- bassists are awesome at this I've noticed.

Who should I listen to? What style? Should I transcribe by hand or just by ear? etc etc... what works for you??

[jtizzle]

Listen to the style you jam in mostly. If it's funk, listen and learn common chord progressions and how to lead into the chord. It takes a lot of time, but you really have to know the song yourself first, you can't listen to others if you still can't get your eyes and ears off your guitar. Learn also common ways to lead into chords, chromatically and diatonically. When you're able to recognize all these sounds, you probably got it.

And it's not that hard to go wrong. If the bassist plays a C with a I function, for example, you have many options to choose from that will give you the same or similar harmony.
You can play a iii chord, which makes the whole thing function as a C major 9. You can play a IV chord, since the IV is not a dominant function, the harmony won't move that much, the C the bassist playsfunctions as the 5th degree of F maj, IV in C. An A minor also works. A minor7 (ACEG) = Cmaj6 (CEGA).
These are things I do that I do and work at least 90% of the time. There's always different functions for notes, the C could function as a V if you were in F major, so the chords you'd have to play would probably be different.

[Dimitri]

Thanks! I definitely know all/most available chord subs if I'm aware of what function of chord is playing.. I'm just talking about developing the skill of picking up on harmonies on a track you've never heard, playing live.. very quickly!

[jtizzle]

It's still kind of like the same thing. Learning how to lead into chords. I'm not good at this at all, I need to have some basis as to what I'm playing, and I've seen people who can do it and it really confuses me how they do it.
Other than what I just said, you can also just throw in your ii V I's, in most cases, it would work. If you know what key your in, then use modal comping. It's a series of chords based on intervals other than thirds, and they all move diatonically within the key. This works so good, I got through Spain without knowing the changes at all at a jam session once, and no one gave me bad looks :P. If you wanna get more into it, a great book on it is Vic Juris's Modern Chords book

[bluegreenguitar]

i definitely have found myself in a similar situation with songs i have never played before or just once or songs where i forget the bridge. and 5 string basses make me feel cross-eyed sometimes too.

one way to practice would be to pick random new songs in the genres you will probably be playing and practice anticipating chords. one trick i use is to play a guitar part that starts later in the measure so i have at least a beat or two to figure out what chords i'm playing.

in some styles you can double the bass, so i'll just play parts of the bassline until i know the chords.

sometimes i'll just sit out the first verse and maybe chorus until i know the chords then come in, or just play something very minimal.

if you don't know the song, you never really know if there are hits coming up or strange harmonic progressions or horn fills. and sometimes they will only come once 3 minutes into the song. i try to sit next to the bassist or keys player so they can cue me.

hope that gives some good ideas, i definitely know i could use some help in this area!

[fep]

I too have a hard time knowing tunes. Having been exposed through my guitar teacher to some of the best jazz musicians in my area I've gotten some insight about how they know tunes...

It does involve an ear, but they mostly don't think in terms of chord names. Instead they might say:

"The bridge modulates to the IV and is just a VI ii V I".

or "Confirmation changes and the bridge is Honeysuckle Rose"

Or "It just chromatically descends from the VI chord".

Their ear/brain was learned to hear these relationships and references,enabling them to play by ear tunes they've never played before.

I've been trying to transition to that way of thinking. To that end, I've started the big task of creating a book of my repertoire that looks like this (this is still in the development phase):

[jmstritt]

I am going to be straight with you. This is a skill that you need to develop, but don't ignore the elephant in the room. You need to learn tunes! If you are expecting to be payed for your services as a guitar player, no one is going to pay you to noodle and fumble around. Sometimes this means learning tunes you don't particularly like. Heck I have a pretty long list of party/dance music that I know, but it's not like I ever said, "Gee to be a better musician I need to learn 'Jungle Boogie,' by Kool and the Gang, or 'Candy,' by Cameo."

As someone who has lived in LA, I will tell you that there are plenty of guitar players out there that can sit in and nail down a Prince or Chic tune, play a Led Zepplin tune, and then play Confirmation or Giant Steps.

I just bring this up, because you say that you are trying to find work. This leads me to believe that you are trying to be a working musician. Keep in mind that as a musician, you are a professional. You need to prepare for a jam or a gig just like a doctor would prepare for surgery or a lawyer would prepare for court. You only get one chance to make a first impression and you are only as good as your last gig, so if someone hears you fumbling around up there, you're toast.

[wizard3739]

1. Originally Posted by jmstritt

   I am going to be straight with you. This is a skill that you need to develop, but don't ignore the elephant in the room. You need to learn tunes! If you are expecting to be payed for your services as a guitar player, no one is going to pay you to noodle and fumble around. Sometimes this means learning tunes you don't particularly like. Heck I have a pretty long list of party/dance music that I know, but it's not like I ever said, "Gee to be a better musician I need to learn 'Jungle Boogie,' by Kool and the Gang, or 'Candy,' by Cameo."

Originally Posted by jmstritt

As someone who has lived in LA, I will tell you that there are plenty of guitar players out there that can sit in and nail down a Prince or Chic tune, play a Led Zepplin tune, and then play Confirmation or Giant Steps.

I just bring this up, because you say that you are trying to find work. This leads me to believe that you are trying to be a working musician. Keep in mind that as a musician, you are a professional. You need to prepare for a jam or a gig just like a doctor would prepare for surgery or a lawyer would prepare for court. You only get one chance to make a first impression and you are only as good as your last gig, so if someone hears you fumbling around up there, you're toast.

+1

wiz

[Reg]

Whatever it takes... Ear training, learning "Chord Pattern"... there are only so many intervals and chords... Obviously you need to be able to hear root motion... then type of harmonic structure... have you practiced this skill... When you gig five of six times a week... your ears have lots of training... but if your not.... you still need to put in the time.
I'm a pro... I can sit in on any gig in most styles and add to whats going on... usually a lot... But I am a jazz player... generally pop, rock, fusion etc... gigs have charts... or set list etc... not always... but generally... and generally the tunes are extremely simple... if you have trouble hearing basic changes.... you need to get your ears together. Like was said in previous posts... it's one of those required skills. It doesn't just happen... just like developing chops for soloing doesn't just happen... But it is fairly easy... ear training... intervals and chordal structures. There are different methods for memorizing... they all end up the same place... you hear the changes etc... Don't wait for the perfect or best system... most will work. Reg

[randalljazz]

Originally Posted by fep

I too have a hard time knowing tunes. Having been exposed through my guitar teacher to some of the best jazz musicians in my area I've gotten some insight about how they know tunes...

It does involve an ear, but they mostly don't think in terms of chord names. Instead they might say:

"The bridge modulates to the IV and is just a VI ii V I".

or "Confirmation changes and the bridge is Honeysuckle Rose"

Or "It just chromatically descends from the VI chord".

Their ear/brain was learned to hear these relationships and references,enabling them to play by ear tunes they've never played before.

I've been trying to transition to that way of thinking. To that end, I've started the big task of creating a book of my repertoire that looks like this (this is still in the development phase):

no doubt you get more out of it by doing it for yourself, but jerry coker's pioneering work improvising jazz has dozens of such patterns (from commonly played tunes) in the appendices...there is a key to to which is which somewhere...

[Dimitri]

Originally Posted by jmstritt

I am going to be straight with you. This is a skill that you need to develop, but don't ignore the elephant in the room. You need to learn tunes! If you are expecting to be payed for your services as a guitar player, no one is going to pay you to noodle and fumble around. Sometimes this means learning tunes you don't particularly like. Heck I have a pretty long list of party/dance music that I know, but it's not like I ever said, "Gee to be a better musician I need to learn 'Jungle Boogie,' by Kool and the Gang, or 'Candy,' by Cameo."

As someone who has lived in LA, I will tell you that there are plenty of guitar players out there that can sit in and nail down a Prince or Chic tune, play a Led Zepplin tune, and then play Confirmation or Giant Steps.

I just bring this up, because you say that you are trying to find work. This leads me to believe that you are trying to be a working musician. Keep in mind that as a musician, you are a professional. You need to prepare for a jam or a gig just like a doctor would prepare for surgery or a lawyer would prepare for court. You only get one chance to make a first impression and you are only as good as your last gig, so if someone hears you fumbling around up there, you're toast.

If I have a gig and there's a setlist for it I'm going to cream all those tunes. If I'm going to an open jam I've never been to I have no idea what tunes are going to be called. I'm not going to NOT sit in because I'm afraid of tunes getting called that I don't know. Every instance this has happened I've picked up on the tune pretty quickly and it's fine.. I'm just trying to be more efficient in doing so.

Furthermore I think this cutthroat attitude is archaic and inhuman. I've seen great players fumble tunes they didn't know, but I (and everyone else) recognized that they were great and they received no negative energy.

[Dimitri]

Originally Posted by Reg

Whatever it takes... Ear training, learning "Chord Pattern"... there are only so many intervals and chords... Obviously you need to be able to hear root motion... then type of harmonic structure... have you practiced this skill... When you gig five of six times a week... your ears have lots of training... but if your not.... you still need to put in the time.
I'm a pro... I can sit in on any gig in most styles and add to whats going on... usually a lot... But I am a jazz player... generally pop, rock, fusion etc... gigs have charts... or set list etc... not always... but generally... and generally the tunes are extremely simple... if you have trouble hearing basic changes.... you need to get your ears together. Like was said in previous posts... it's one of those required skills. It doesn't just happen... just like developing chops for soloing doesn't just happen... But it is fairly easy... ear training... intervals and chordal structures. There are different methods for memorizing... they all end up the same place... you hear the changes etc... Don't wait for the perfect or best system... most will work. Reg

I can hear basic changes just fine.. it's more a matter of memorizing all the harmonic movements and form on one pass for me I think and being comfortable referencing it in my head/anticipating changes I just heard for the first time.

[Reg]

Originally Posted by Dimitri

I can hear basic changes just fine.. it's more a matter of memorizing all the harmonic movements and form on one pass for me I think and being comfortable referencing it in my head/anticipating changes I just heard for the first time.

It's all about form... in many levels. I thought you were talking about changes.... If you need an order of what you need to be able to hear,
Form
Rhythm
Harmonic and melodic content
all the other BS
Understanding concepts of form can be more important than getting actual notes or changes right, especially in live situations.
The great thing... Concepts and actual forms of music are fairly simple, and your ears don't really need to be that sophisticated.
Generally forms become instinctive... you simply feel them.
I host a jazz jam... I generally give ques to players when they look somewhat unsure of what's going on. I feel it's part of my job as hosting pro to make players comfortable... have fun and improve.
Were just playing music... it's not quantum theory or saving lives...
Right... accept where your at with your musicianship, work on improving and enjoy. There is always going to be players better or worse... who cares. Reg

[jmstritt]

Originally Posted by Dimitri

Furthermore I think this cutthroat attitude is archaic and inhuman. I've seen great players fumble tunes they didn't know, but I (and everyone else) recognized that they were great and they received no negative energy.

You can be mad at me for pointing out the obvious, but being mad at me isn't going to get you hired for a gig.

You started the thread by saying you are struggling as a professional musician. I'm telling you why, not to be mean, but because sometimes we don't realize what we are doing and we need an objective party to point it out.

I started getting calls years ago for R&B gigs even though I am primarily a jazz player. The bandleader would send a set list, I'd learn it, and then guess what happens at the gig? "Hey guitar player do you know___?" If you don't know a ton of tunes there is no way to prepare for that question. Especially when you are playing pop tunes, the audience knows the music! If you don't get it right, people aren't going to stick around, which means they won't be buying drinks, or food, or merch, which means on the off chance you get paid, you probably won't get invited back. The fact that you play a brilliant solo isn't going to redeem you in the audience's eyes if you mess up a Michael Jackson tune.

What I did in my situation, was I looked at the songlists for a lot of R&B groups in my area and started learning the tunes. Just because the bandleader didn't put Chaka Chan on the setlist doesn't mean that on the gig the singer won't say, "Hey guitar player do you have the intro for, 'Sweet Thing?' "

Again, you can say that I'm inhuman or a jerk or whatever, but like I said, being mad at me doesn't put money in your pocket, and it sure as hell won't help you get a gig. ;-)

[Dimitri]

Thanks for your reply. I'm struggling largely in part because for most of a year I didn't find/look in the right places for the good open jams-- but also predominantly I was injured and couldn't play for two months, and then another two months of learning how to play again.. so I'm just starting to hit the jams hard.

I understand knowing tunes is important, I have a spreadsheet of everything that gets called-- that being said something tells me there's no shortcut to knowing a ton of tunes, and I'm only going to learn by putting myself out there, not by hiding and trying to shed for 15 hours a day for 5 years before exposing myself to sunlight.

I keep saying that every time I sit in a learn a new tune and I'm pretty shameless about it.

And I certainly wasn't directing that "inhuman" comment squarely on your shoulders. I'm just trying to stay very far from any state of mind that discourages me from playing out. I'd rather play out and get crushed then sit at home.