What's this about? Analyze this progression

thared33 · #1 10-08-2011, 06:13 AM

I'm still learning a lot about chord choices and borrowed chords. I'm amazed at how musicians can choose all of these chords that seem to not make any sense (as far as the tonic/key) and have them fit perfectly. Here's a progression I'm trying to analyze:

The key signature is F Major

F-Bbm (for most of the song, seems like a I-mIV thing) - where is the mIV borrowed from? Parallel F minor?

Then it goes onto F-Bbm-F-Cm (I'm guessing they're using a mV since it's borrowed from the parallel F minor key, right?)

F-Am-Bb-Dm-Gm-C (this one seems pretty straightforward in F major, just I-iii-IV-vi-ii-V). However, there's a natural B going on in the A minor chord. Hmph.

F-Eb-Dm-G (This is the ending part, the Eb looks like a bVII, the Dm is the vi chord of F major, but the G major I'm not sure of). When it goes Eb-Dm-G, it sounds like modulation and definitely sounds like it 'completes' the piece. I've heard this same exact thing in another song. The little F-Eb-Dm-G transition was used to move to a key a whole tone up if I'm not mistaken. Other than that, I don't know how/why this is functioning.

Final Fantasy VII - Tifa's Theme [HQ] - YouTube - I've liked this song since it came out. I just have no idea what's going on, why it's functioning, and especially how I can learn how to use chord choices like this myself.

fumblefingers · #2 10-08-2011, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thared33

I'm still learning a lot about chord choices and borrowed chords. I'm amazed at how musicians can choose all of these chords that seem to not make any sense (as far as the tonic/key) and have them fit perfectly. Here's a progression I'm trying to analyze:

The key signature is F Major

F-Bbm (for most of the song, seems like a I-mIV thing) - where is the mIV borrowed from? Parallel F minor?

Then it goes onto F-Bbm-F-Cm (I'm guessing they're using a mV since it's borrowed from the parallel F minor key, right?)

F-Am-Bb-Dm-Gm-C (this one seems pretty straightforward in F major, just I-iii-IV-vi-ii-V). However, there's a natural B going on in the A minor chord. Hmph.

F-Eb-Dm-G (This is the ending part, the Eb looks like a bVII, the Dm is the vi chord of F major, but the G major I'm not sure of). When it goes Eb-Dm-G, it sounds like modulation and definitely sounds like it 'completes' the piece. I've heard this same exact thing in another song. The little F-Eb-Dm-G transition was used to move to a key a whole tone up if I'm not mistaken. Other than that, I don't know how/why this is functioning.

Final Fantasy VII - Tifa's Theme [HQ] - YouTube - I've liked this song since it came out. I just have no idea what's going on, why it's functioning, and especially how I can learn how to use chord choices like this myself.

1. are these the actual chord symbols? where are the 7th indications?

2. I don't see where you are coming up with a B natural "going on in the" Ami chord. Are you referring to a written melody note? If not, the symbol would have to be Ami9.

3. the generally accepted nomenclature is "IVm", as opposed to "mIV", etc. Interestingly enough, when spoken it often becomes "minor IV chord".

JakeAcci · #3 10-08-2011, 09:25 AM

I to iv yes, a common progression. IV iv I is a common cadence back to one, iv is often used to pull back to I. The b6 (in this case the Db note) wants to resolve to the 5 (C) and the 4 (Bb) wants to resolve to the 3 (A.) The other note is a common tone to both chords - 1 (F)

So I to iv repeating has similar function to I to V7 repeating. It's the I chord, then a chord that pulls back to the I chord, repeating. Another example of I to iv back and forth is the chorus of Echo and the Bunnymen's "Killing Moon."

natural B on the Am in the line. Just a color added to the iii. No big deal. The composer wanted some color on the iii and using the diatonic b9 would have been more dissonant.

In the last progression it's still in F, the Eb is bVII, the G is II. I guess we can go with "modal interchange." bVII borrowed from mixolydian, II from lydian. You hear it often. Yes, II (as opposed to ii) usually resolves somewhere and traditionally is a dominant rather than a triad, but in pop and other music you hear it on it's own quite often. It has a lifting quality in this context, and I still hear it as II in F rather than a modulation.

JakeAcci · #4 10-08-2011, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

1. are these the actual chord symbols? where are the 7th indications?

The chords in the piece are mostly triads and triads with a 2 added, not seventh chords, though the iv is really iv6 (Bbm6)

thared33 · #5 10-09-2011, 01:20 AM

Yes those are the symbols (I'm talking letter chords, not the I-ii-etc thing, I worked those out myself), I have the sheet music book. Yes there's a B natural going on in that Am arpeggio, and as pointed out, looks like it's for color.

F-Eb is the bVII, then it goes to Dm, then to G... and I'm thinking that's borrowed from the C or G tonal centers. I'd say maybe it's more like G since when it goes from the Dm to the G, the Dm is wanting to resolve to G, and from there G sounds like our new home. HOWEVER, that means a Vm was used in G (Dm), so it's like a combination of C and G. That moves the piece up a whole step, but it goes right back to F. I hear this myself but never understood how/why it works and why it's done so often.

I think I need to map out which chords I have to choose from using the parallel minor key, the melodic minor and the modes and go nuts with it. Is there any course or book that concentrates specifically on what's been mentioned here - common borrowed chords for composition? Even if it's for Pop tunes. It would be great to have a course/book that for example analyzes what's going on like here in this thread with songs. That'll give me tons of new ideas for chord movement and borrowing from other keys.

I really need to get a strict training routine going that'll help me master my options and ideas. If there isn't a book/course that's specific to this, I might have to make my own training routine.

Thanks for the replies

bako · #6 10-09-2011, 07:41 AM

If you are interested in getting a sense of what is possible as far as the progression of chords then I would suggest learning or at least observing a few hundred songs.
From that vantage point reading the theories about what factors allow chords to coexist will have more meaning.

I have also found the kind of experiments you suggest "going nuts" with to offer insights. The idea of borrowed harmonies offers a treasure trove of possibilities.
I focus on how much is in common and how much is different (between the harmonic areas) and does it serve the musical moment.

thared33 · #7 10-09-2011, 09:01 AM

That's what I'm thinking. Maybe I should gather a list of lots of songs and transcribe them and stay consistent with it for 6 months. I want these ideas to come naturally and be 2nd nature. That way, I'll have that treasure trove at my disposal on the fly as you mentioned.