How to "hear" the changes

JazzFanatik · #1 07-11-2011, 04:15 PM

Okay this is something I've been trying to figure out....but I am playing in a band, and sometimes we have to make things up on the spot. And my bass player will play something with a walking bass, and I have a REALLY hard time knowing when exactly the changes come? if that makes any sense...like is there any advice anyone can give me on hearing the changes in a song from a walking bassline like when I know to play a different chord?

I"m sure this is pretty basic, but i am struggling with it and I could really use some help?

Buster Loaf · #2 07-11-2011, 04:20 PM

Assuming your bass player is aware that he's blowing your doors off, I would just lay out and let him blow alone. Maybe try and catch a note here and there.

Otherwise, during rehearsal, have him call the changes a few times through as he making stuff up. After a few sessions you'll have a pretty good idea where he generally goes.

He's your best source for bass line info.

Kman · #3 07-11-2011, 04:50 PM

How is the bassist outlining the changes? Some players will get fancy with interpreting changes. How long have you been playing? I remember when I was young I had a hard time also. With experience you hear things better and become more familiar with the songs. It takes time for your ears to develop.

JonnyPac · #4 07-11-2011, 05:34 PM

I often play with bassists and others who never throw me a bone... If I'm lost, tough shiz. I've had to learn to imagine the harmony and rhythm assuming that everyone will only be implying it. That's jazz for ya. Sometimes it's fun to jam on country and rock because you can relax and let the backup carry you along without as much mental work.

Internalize the sounds of the basic progression and keep the overall form in your head.

Reg · #5 07-11-2011, 08:55 PM

Most of the time... a basic harmonic shape or FORM is always going on whether you play the changes, right or wrong. Start becoming aware of musical forms... They usually have pre-set number of bars, generally follow pre-set harmonic pattern, Like I VI II V , blues, 8, 12, or 16 bars, 12 bar is by far most common. Rhythm changes, there are a few versions but all generally follow same harmonic pattern. Back in the stone ages when I was a grad student I put out a research paper that organized jazz tunes into forms and harmonic patterns... anyway the act of going through that process, recognizing forms of standards, will greatly improve your ability to know what to play when. I could simply tell you, but would rather help... pick ten different jazz standards and try and organize them into similar groups with what ever you have to work with. Post and I'll help with giving you more info. Ear training does work, but if you don't have references... you'll still get lost... Reg

JazzFanatik · #6 07-11-2011, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reg

Most of the time... a basic harmonic shape or FORM is always going on whether you play the changes, right or wrong. Start becoming aware of musical forms... They usually have pre-set number of bars, generally follow pre-set harmonic pattern, Like I VI II V , blues, 8, 12, or 16 bars, 12 bar is by far most common. Rhythm changes, there are a few versions but all generally follow same harmonic pattern. Back in the stone ages when I was a grad student I put out a research paper that organized jazz tunes into forms and harmonic patterns... anyway the act of going through that process, recognizing forms of standards, will greatly improve your ability to know what to play when. I could simply tell you, but would rather help... pick ten different jazz standards and try and organize them into similar groups with what ever you have to work with. Post and I'll help with giving you more info. Ear training does work, but if you don't have references... you'll still get lost... Reg

That sounds like a great suggestion, I will definately do that and post and let you know what i come up with...

I've been playing for 2 years now. Jazz for 1 year and honestly a lot of stuff is just now clicking for me, so I still consider myself "newer" to Jazz although i do have some experience. I can listen to anything and learn it by ear, but Ive been trying to study theory and be able to improvise and play along with stuff i've never heard before...but it's tough especially when the bass is just WALKING i mean my GOODNESS...lol

But that sounds like a plan Reg, definatley gonna get on that. THanks everyone!

jazzphan · #7 07-11-2011, 10:43 PM

when i joined the first jazz group i played with it definitely took me a while to gel with the bassist, i had never heard that walking bass sound before and i too couldn't hear the changes right away (especially cause i was the only accompanist; no piano to rely on). you ears will adjust soon enough don't worry

JazzFanatik · #8 07-12-2011, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kman

How is the bassist outlining the changes? Some players will get fancy with interpreting changes. How long have you been playing? I remember when I was young I had a hard time also. With experience you hear things better and become more familiar with the songs. It takes time for your ears to develop.

Honestly, I think he's just making it up. LOL i'm sure there's a format to it, but I'm not even sure he knows what it is. We all play by ear, and I'm trying to study theory more, just because I enjoy it and it helps me out a lot...

It seems like by the time I get ONE chord, he has moved on! LOL

So yeah I guess It will just take more practice. Honestly we play more funk and blues and R & B than anything, I would LIKE to play more jazz, but Im just not very good at it. Whenever we DO play jazz, I usually get left behind unless it's something SO simple like a ii V I.

I really like Reg's suggestion, I know i need to just buckle down and study standards more...

bako · #9 07-12-2011, 10:02 AM

When an instrument is playing a single note at a time it is harder to grasp the exact harmonic meaning.
If a bass lays into a groove on a F pedal tone just playing F and the octave. What chord is it?
It can be anything. You look for other clues. Is there a melody? What notes is that adding. Often that will be enough to clarify.
If it's just you and the bass note wise then listen for the progression which in turn can perhaps reveal what the intended chord over the F is.

If it's a walking line, are there notes that seem more prominent than others.
In relation to that note, is the bassist playing 3 or b3, 7 or b7, 5,#5 or b5, etc.?
Being able to hear these differences helps immeasurably.
If the bass is playing in a amorphous way then you can do so as well if you can figure out the general harmonic area.

Also, in the situation that you are describing you can assert your own ideas and content. People then can follow you.
I suggest adding to your practice improvising progressions and song forms, vamps etc. so that you will be prepared to do so in a session.

In either case make a guess and dive in there. Mistakes will happen but you will learn much from the process.
Great suggestions from Reg.

JazzFanatik · #10 07-12-2011, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bako

When an instrument is playing a single note at a time it is harder to grasp the exact harmonic meaning.
If a bass lays into a groove on a F pedal tone just playing F and the octave. What chord is it?
It can be anything. You look for other clues. Is there a melody? What notes is that adding. Often that will be enough to clarify.
If it's just you and the bass note wise then listen for the progression which in turn can perhaps reveal what the intended chord over the F is.

If it's a walking line, are there notes that seem more prominent than others.
In relation to that note, is the bassist playing 3 or b3, 7 or b7, 5,#5 or b5, etc.?
Being able to hear these differences helps immeasurably.
If the bass is playing in a amorphous way then you can do so as well if you can figure out the general harmonic area.

Also, in the situation that you are describing you can assert your own ideas and content. People then can follow you.
I suggest adding to your practice improvising progressions and song forms, vamps etc. so that you will be prepared to do so in a session.

In either case make a guess and dive in there. Mistakes will happen but you will learn much from the process.
Great suggestions from Reg.

All great tips! Thanks...yeah i definately need to practice this more. i can always just ask our piano player, but i'm trying to work on figuring it out myself...cuz sometimes he's not there and it's just me!