quartal chords, triads W/ diff bass notes, and others

exarctly · #1 06-23-2011, 01:32 PM

I am wondering if someone can help me understand some of these harmonies. I use them a lot and they sound great to my ear, but I am not really sure what they imply. Are they just inside outside possibilities or do I need to learn more about them.

For instance I love just playing triads on a piano with different bass notes or moving triads over pedal tones and chromatic voice leading etc. Are there any good advice with how to use this in context of playing a tune or as reharmonization. Or favorite distances between bass note and triad and ways they function.

Also as for the fourths I love to play standards fourth voicings on say a minor 7th chord. But then I will take it a half step out of key or cycle through certain dissonances and resolve them. One example...like over Em7 I might play BEA as a voicing and then just move it up a half to CFBb...now maybe this is just chromaticism, but I like the sound of the dissonance. Sometimes I will just move that voicing all over the place against a chord and am not always sure why I like it when I do.

I also hear guys use a lot of pentatonic scales in different keys over a stagnant chord. I think I get why this works...but would love to hear if you guys have any favorites. Such as Coltrane matrix type patterns over a single chord or ways to use pentatonic that I may not have thought of.

Jake Hanlon · #2 06-23-2011, 01:38 PM

you're talking a lot about side slipping, i have a 15 min video lesson about this on my youtube page linked in my signature.

Polychords that you're mentioning are used a great deal in jazz compositions especially after the Wayne Shorter/Herbie Hancock influence on harmony in non-functional progressions. In a lot of ways these are all simply either side slipping or the superimposition of other tonalities usually found in either melodic minor or through the diminished scale.

exarctly · #3 06-23-2011, 02:08 PM

Thanks. That is what I am looking for then. To learn more about this sort of thing. Right now I am having good success with it, but not total success because I still am not positive when it will sound good or not. I am implying and altering things but sometimes not sure why, just following instincts and imitating some things. I would like to know more about it. I will check out your video and let you know if I have more questions. I take it is the video on requested lesson on outside playing.

exarctly · #4 06-23-2011, 07:16 PM

Cool video. Though I did kind of already know that. It just sort of confirms what I was doing. But I like the idea of separating the scales or licks by 3rds etc...do you have lesson two on applying it to functional harmony up there yet? I am interested in seeing where you go with that.

JonnyPac · #5 07-06-2011, 09:17 PM

Hey, here are pages on quartal stacks for guitar. I hope they help.

EDITED 2012 with newly revised pages!

Billnc · #6 07-06-2011, 09:56 PM

Jonnypac, why are the inversions of quartal chords so often left out?

JonnyPac · #7 07-06-2011, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billnc

Jonnypac, why are the inversions of quartal chords so often left out?

Good point! I use a few and some variants. If you have some cool ones that fit the fretboard nicely please throw them up here.

This thread video has some great ones:

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...son-video.html

wizard3739 · #8 07-07-2011, 12:29 AM

JonnyPac, this is a good way to think about quartal chords. These voicings are among my favorite sounds because they are so very versatile. Thank you for this post.

wiz

brwnhornet59 · #9 07-07-2011, 01:15 AM

Yeah Jonny, I like em too! Btw, where ya been? We miss you around here!!

Billnc · #10 07-07-2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyPac

Good point! I use a few and some variants. If you have some cool ones that fit the fretboard nicely please throw them up here.

This thread video has some great ones:

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...son-video.html

I'm new here so I'll go through some of the other threads, there's a few I've got that seem uncommon.Though I'm sure someone has worked it all out before...

JonnyPac · #11 07-07-2011, 04:23 PM

My true feelings on quartal harmony is that it doesn't really exist in most music, including jazz. We use quartal stacks to outline and voice tertian sounds. With that in mind, inverting the 4th chords so that non-4th intervals are included (besides the bass) defeats the purpose. The inverted 4th stacks do make neat chords, but I do not consider them quartal any longer. Just my two cents.

***

Thanks BH, I'm always in and out of these forums.

Billnc · #12 07-07-2011, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyPac

My true feelings on quartal harmony is that it doesn't really exist in most music, including jazz. We use quartal stacks to outline and voice tertian sounds. With that in mind, inverting the 4th chords so that non-4th intervals are included (besides the bass) defeats the purpose. The inverted 4th stacks do make neat chords, but I do not consider them quartal any longer. Just my two cents.

***

Thanks BH, I'm always in and out of these forums.

I know exactly what you mean. I'm working with the material, trying to find odd bits I like. I'm trying to incorporate the inversions into tertial harmony so I'm not trying to replace tertial, just find nice ways to move extensions around etc.

Hindemith wrote that he thought chords could not be inverted, you can change the function and even the root by inverting it. (I get the impression when we say 'rootless chord' he'd go into a rage.) So your thoughts on the inversions are shared by some of the greater minds.

JonnyPac · #13 07-08-2011, 01:39 AM

Awesome. Paul's the man.

I get that on inversions. Seems more drastic in some contexts; the clarity of the mix has much to do with it as well. The exact chord inversions of a campfire sing-along with vocalists, guitarists, and a bass favoring roots has little meaning, whereas in a pristine jazz trio or string quartet, every voice is hugely important.

Some think that I tonic chords with the 5th in the bass are not really I tonic chords since they sound somewhat unresolved compared to root inversions, etc. I suggest to my students to "make friends" with each inversion and choose them with there overall contextual effect in mind. This goes for all reusable structures in music, IMO. It's part of understanding your vocabulary.

JonnyPac · #14 10-20-2011, 04:50 PM

And the missing inversions!

"Quartal triads" on the fretboard. Color coded 3-notes.

JonnyPac · #15 03-20-2012, 07:22 PM

New page! I finished up the quartal triads info/text/image and added this page to the 2012 edition of my book. Enjoy!