Minor 7 chord pairs

[m78w]

Hey All.

Just posted a new lesson to my site that lays out a cool way to double your m7 chord vocabulary on the spot. Check it out.

Jazz Guitar Chords: Minor 7 Chord Pairing | MattWarnockGuitar.com

[Reg]

Hey Matt... shouldn't you make the student aware that their strongly implying modal harmonic concepts. And most of the the time changes the harmonic rhythm and really should be aware of what their actually playing and implying....Reg

[m78w]

Hey Reg,
I explained that the chords came from the Dorian mode, first and second chords, and that that were the second and third chords from the parent Ionian mode, the goal was to open their ears up to the possibility of using these chord pairs in a tune, instead of just playing cm7 or an inversion of that chord when they see cm7. Giving them an easy way, using only one chord shape, to step beyond what they already knew.

[brwnhornet59]

Looking now.

[Reg]

Originally Posted by m78w

Hey Reg,
I explained that the chords came from the Dorian mode, first and second chords, and that that were the second and third chords from the parent Ionian mode, the goal was to open their ears up to the possibility of using these chord pairs in a tune, instead of just playing cm7 or an inversion of that chord when they see cm7. Giving them an easy way, using only one chord shape, to step beyond what they already knew.

Hey Matt... thanks for reply and I'm not trying to get on you case. I think you do a great job of presenting material. I'm just always interested where a concept actually ends up. One of the most difficult aspect of playing jazz is the education of our ears, not the personal choices or what we like or dislike... but being aware of what harmonic and melodic concepts are and being able to hear them. Using modal concepts... implies a lot... If someone began using structures in fourths with standard modal functional implications... that's saying quite a bit more than a min7th chords. I understand that there are many sources of adding harmonic motion with simple and stationary chords, but how one chooses to fill or approach does have implications. And generally when one uses a minor chord a whole step above it's simply a deceptive tonic - dominant harmonic function or at least motion. Ya da ya da ... anyway... I like and also use in both and more applications... but I'm aware of what I'm implying. It's like giving out loaded guns without explaining what the bullets are.... I may be making too much of nothing... or maybe I'm not. Reg

[m78w]

Well the class is for beginner to intermediate musicians who haven't played jazz before, so loading them up with theory, which I have definitely done in the past, tends to turn people off, and quickly. Letting people experiment and learn by playing, instead of coming at things from a strictly theoretical viewpoint, or heavier on the theory at least, has worked well for me. If the students want to get more into theory I am all for it, and if it was a university class full of jazz majors who were planning on playing jazz for a living, then yes we would get deeper into the why's of the concept. In my experience many people get turned off from jazz because they think it is too hard to understand, and so I feel that it is my job, at least with my students, to make jazz fun and exciting, get people to play all the cool sounds that they think are full of math and then once they are making changes and sounding good on a tune, then we can dig deeper into why they sound good. Just my approach to jazz, after watching many students drop out of jazz programs over the years I decided to focus more on the enjoyment of the music, rather than overloading people with theory. If they stick with it of course they will learn more about the theory behind the music, but the music should come first and theory should come secon, to explain why things work and other things don't.

Also, not to gripe but I don't think anything in music can be compared to a loaded gun. Nobody gets hurt if I play 4th voicings over a 2 5 and you play standard voicings. I mean, if bill Evans didn't play 4ths on so what the whole modal genre would have been way different. Experimentation is fun, at least to me, I love finding new sounds and then afterwards analyzing why they work, but first just knowing that it sounds good and I can use it in whatever context I think it sounds good.

Studying jazz is hard work, but for me it should be fun, theory is important, no doubt, but I believe it should come after to explain why things sound good. Why a Parker lick sounded good over a 2 5, but I don't believe we shouldn't be able to play that lick until we have learned the theory behind it, for me, if it sounds good I go for it, if not, I don't.

But that is the great thing about jazz, we can all think different things, teach it from different angles, have different tastes, and yet we can all enjoy this great music and all sound great when we play.

[fep]

Hi Matt,

I'm glad to see you posting again, you always provide high quality info. I remember the days when a lot of us were posting arrangements to the CM section of the forum - the good old days.

Originally Posted by m78w

... Letting people experiment and learn by playing, instead of coming at things from a strictly theoretical viewpoint, or heavier on the theory at least, has worked well for me...

I'm reading a book called "The Music Lesson" by Victor Wooten. He talks about learning by playing in a manner similar to how we learned language when we were children. You may want to give that book a read, I'm finding it very interesting.

[m78w]

Thanks, glad to be back! Yeah, that is pretty much how I teach. A lot of me playing with the students, them learning by listening and then "speaking" themselves, more of a conversational approach than anything. Once they can speak then it is time to write, and to write there are rules for sure, this applies to more advanced playing as well, but for people just starting out I think there is a lot to be said for just sounding good and having fun right off the bat.

[Earl]

Hi Matt...

Right on. This concept will definitely improve one's thinking when playing comp!!

Earl

[m78w]

No problem Earl, glad you dig it!

[gingerjazz]

Hey fep that book by Victor wooten is killer man,i read it all the way through on the first day i got it,i think its a clever way of putting his ideas across with a story what do you think.If this is not the case then to me that would be a great idea for a new concept in educational books,hey this might make me a millionaire oh crap!!!! i just let my idea loose on the internet without patenting it first,what a dohnut i am.

[Reg]

Hey Matt... thanks for second explanation... makes more since... than first, again thanks.
At what level do you actually explain what's going on... Sorry for the loaded gun analogy... maybe water gun on a hot day would have been better... actually, analogies always suck, sorry again.
I've found that the students that drop out or loose interest, don't do any better when spoon feed up front... but tend to become trained for instant gratification with little work requirements and motivation is basically trained in same manor. I'm somewhat sick of kids or beginners having to have "fun" as guideline for why they might want to play jazz. The audience is a different subject...But as you said... there are many ways to teach, with many different goals.
How could anyone who has the opportunity to play music not be happy and having fun....

[exarctly]

I agree with Matt...and Reg... that is.. I find teaching can have different levels of dangers at different times. I can see someone being spoon fed all the time becoming sort of lazy in the long run or not disciplined enough...yet, I also think that if you do not get people hearing and trying cool stuff, they may fail to ever take an interest in jazz. I teach mostly beginning to intermediate players, and usually rock with some theory and improv thrown in.. I am so happy when I get a student to actually be interested n jazz at all. So, I see nothing wrong with trying to find ways to get someone to be or stay interested in jazz before their mind can grasp a lot of what is happening.
I like teaching blues scales to start improv with people, and I never see a need in the first week to explain anything about making the change to the 4 chord or landing on root notes at the end of phrases. First I see what their natural intuitions are and if they like it. Then I build from there to phrasing rhythms, and harmonic awareness etc.
I think that getting good sounds into a persons ear will make them more likely to play the music for longer periods of time until they do investigate things more completely. But I also fear that they may be complacent too much in playing by ear or not learning about the music. Which is why I think that the answer to this philosophical debate is both and not one or the other, and to be varied depending on the player in question, nd what stage he is in the learning process.
My two cents.

[Reg]

Yea... I agree and have a lot of respect for teachers... it's really a difficult job. I've never taught kids and really wouldn't know where to start or how to go about it. I have taught at the college level, but always felt as though I was only going through the motions. I have watched many kids go through years of music school and lessons and when they finish... don't really have a clue what's going on in most respects of jazz, and their playing is usually a reflection.

[wizard3739]

Hey Matt, It's good to have you back with us. Your lessons have always been very good and useful for teaching jazz concepts. I have most of your chord melodies stored on my computer for reference material.

wiz

[fep]

Originally Posted by gingerjazz

Hey fep that book by Victor wooten is killer man,i read it all the way through on the first day i got it,i think its a clever way of putting his ideas across with a story what do you think.

Yes I think it is clever to write the lesson as a dialog with a mystic as he did. Not only does it make for an entertaining read but, this style really drives home the importance of the points that the author is making.

[add4]

Nice idea, my teacher makes me work on that, on every chord of the scale.
The idea is that if the chord stays the same for 1 bar, you provide the chord tones on 1 and 2 and all the upper structure on beats 3 and 4.
works great on comping! and also while improvising:
on 1 bar of Gmaj, play Gmaj chord tones on 1 and 2 and Am tones on 3 and 4.
working on that at the moment. i really like that sound