playing with a bass player- voicings

[rafapak]

hi guys

I am new to the field of jazz guitar playing. Forgive me if I ask naive questions or sth.

Let's say that one wants to play with band only. He doesn't want to play jazz guitar solo.

When playing with a bass player it is said that guitarist should avoid playing chords with root in the bass in order not to double bass player. Well, bassist can also play on his instrument thirds, fifths, sevenths, ninths of the chords of the song that is played.

What voicings should I learn so that my chord playing doesn't interfere with bassist playing? Because of the reasons stated above does it make sense to learn only those voicings that don't contain bass notes? Please, help me to understand the whole concept.

[Away351]

You could just play voicings you have now..just drop the root note.

[mr. beaumont]

absolutely.

The number one thing i try to do with a bass player present is stay off the sixth string.

[VersatileJazzGuitarist]

Originally Posted by rafapak

hi guys

Because of the reasons stated above does it make sense to learn only those voicings that don't contain bass notes? Please, help me to understand the whole concept.

I think you should learn voicings with bass notes because you're bound to run into playing situations where you need them, such as jamming with other guitarists, playing duo with a horn player, or backing up a singer.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Originally Posted by Away351

You could just play voicings you have now..just drop the root note.

As well: try going up a third, diatonically:

D bass + FMaj7 = Dm9
G bass + Bm7b5 = G9
C bass + Em7 = CMaj9

You can also just play the 3rd and 7th of the chord and leave the root and fifth for the bass player. You might think this is too sparse, but it sounds great! Try sliding into the 3+7 from about or below, too!

[cosmic gumbo]

When I'm jamming on the tuba, I prefer to play with a tenor guitarist, because they can't step on my toes. Banjo is good too, as long as it ain't one of them 5 string hillbilly models.

[randalljazz]

II-V-I Tutor: Introduction

[Jake Hanlon]

I think personally that the whole 'don't play roots' idea is a misunderstood statement and a vast generalization.

Roots are fine, you can voice them in the bass of your voicing or anywhere else. The trick is to be aware of range and rhythm. Doubling is what you want to avoid in terms of playing the same thing at the same time. I play with just bass players a lot and I am always aware of when I opt to play roots and I put them where I want to and try my best to play them at least 8va or 2 octaves higher whenever possible, that way they're not going to clash.

The real trick to playing with just bass players is to find voicings that give the essential information (usually this demands the 3rd and or the 7th) and an additional note that offers colour, this might be the melody note which could be anything (including the evil roots) or extensions on the chords.

I'm not saying that you can all willie nillie play roots I'm saying that they are an option depending on the circumstances of that moment. Don't go for the root because you hear the root and then back off it saying "no, no, no a book told me not to play roots"

[Reg]

The last time I checked... bass players don't hang on roots that much. If I was to make a guess... maybe 10% of the time... and most of the more contemporary players... probable closer to 1% of the time. My point is don't worry about playing roots on bottom, you don't have to bring out all the notes of every chord your playing. Most guitarist get way to involved in knowing all inversions of all voicings... it's almost as though there trying to play anything but what the actual chord is. Then on top of that they have so much going on in their head that unless they have something memorized... their always smelling fumes... that me their always behind... let alone actually making what they're playing have some conviction... or hint of a groove. Learn three or four versions the standard jazz chords and be able to play them with out thinking about it and then play tunes. ( maybe even thinking ahead) Then start worrying about more versions of chords, different inversions etc... I would suggest worrying about the top notes before you worry about the bottom notes. Your lead line, or the notes on top of your comping are usually heard first, which means those notes will cause many more problems than the bass notes. If I can help with the actual chord choices... let me know. I post all over this forum. I started a thread in this section; comping-chords-chord-progressions/14013-playing-through-jazz-tunes-jazz-style. There are a bunch of tunes there and I'm always looking for more to post... Reg

[oldane]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

You can also just play the 3rd and 7th of the chord and leave the root and fifth for the bass player. You might think this is too sparse, but it sounds great! Try sliding into the 3+7 from about or below, too!

3+7 is very well suited to great voice leading. With only 3 and 7, in dominant chords, those notes are enharmonic (via tritone substitution). Freddy Green used that a lot. Often he even played just one note per beat, and it still didn't sound sparse. That way he never stepped on anyones toes. Actually, Frank Foster never realized how few notes Green used in his chords, despite playing with him in the Basie band for all those years. It was only when being told about it after Greens death, that he became aware of it. So less can indeed be more.

That said, many fine swing band rhythm guitarists got great results by using 3-note-chords on the low E, D and G strings (the classic fingerings are essentially 3+7 plus either the root or the 5'th).

[FatJeff]

You might be interested in checking out the Fareed Haque comping video-course at TrueFire. It's great for building up great-sounding comps that blend in like butter melts on toast.

Jazz Comping Survival Guide - Video Guitar Lessons - TrueFire TV

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by Reg

The last time I checked... bass players don't hang on roots that much. If I was to make a guess... maybe 10% of the time... and most of the more contemporary players... probable closer to 1% of the time. My point is don't worry about playing roots on bottom, you don't have to bring out all the notes of every chord your playing. Most guitarist get way to involved in knowing all inversions of all voicings... it's almost as though there trying to play anything but what the actual chord is. Then on top of that they have so much going on in their head that unless they have something memorized... their always smelling fumes... that me their always behind... let alone actually making what they're playing have some conviction... or hint of a groove. Learn three or four versions the standard jazz chords and be able to play them with out thinking about it and then play tunes. ( maybe even thinking ahead) Then start worrying about more versions of chords, different inversions etc... I would suggest worrying about the top notes before you worry about the bottom notes. Your lead line, or the notes on top of your comping are usually heard first, which means those notes will cause many more problems than the bass notes. If I can help with the actual chord choices... let me know. I post all over this forum. I started a thread in this section; comping-chords-chord-progressions/14013-playing-through-jazz-tunes-jazz-style. There are a bunch of tunes there and I'm always looking for more to post... Reg

That thinking seems close to Mick Goodrick. Play what you know well and find all the uses for a few things... add to that. From Pat Martino, students are always looking for things, players are finding them.

[RememberClifford1]

I definitely agree with the sentiment expressed regarding roots vs low strings... generally you want to avoid conflicting in REGISTER with the bass... not some much playing the same notes. Playing lots on the E and A strings will come out muddy. Generally you'll want to play on the higher four strings and like to keep the textures pretty sparse. Of course playing with bass allows you to drop the root which can free you up to play some cooler extensions the really important thing is voice leading. If good voice leading leads you to roots then so be it. So just work with the voicings you have now... expand the vocab when you're comfortable and try and voice lead nicely.

[Reg]

Originally Posted by Billnc

That thinking seems close to Mick Goodrick. Play what you know well and find all the uses for a few things... add to that. From Pat Martino, students are always looking for things, players are finding them.

That's also interesting... both Mick And Pat were at Berklee while I was there

[rafapak]

Originally Posted by FatJeff

You might be interested in checking out the Fareed Haque comping video-course at TrueFire. It's great for building up great-sounding comps that blend in like butter melts on toast.

Jazz Comping Survival Guide - Video Guitar Lessons - TrueFire TV

thanks to all of you guys for replies, thanks to you fatjeff, these lessons are the best material I have ever seen on jazz guitar comping