Here's a tip on diminished chords that is easy & cool

[SwingSwangSwung]

Saw this in Levine's book and tried it out. Its easy and sounds cool (those two characteristics are my favorite).

When you are comping on a diminished chord - or playing one during a solo - raise any note in the chord 1 step. Wow, what a difference in sound. From normal/boring to cool/hip.

This may be old news to most, but it a new trick for this old dog.

[billkath]

Aren't you simply then NOT playing the diminished chord-substituting it? Move the bb7 up one and you've got a minor7b5, or if you're doing a triad raising the b3 gives you a major 6 chord etc? It's the same as instead of comping a dom7 you can play a m7/m6 thang?

[Kman]

Nice tip, they do sound nice.

Thanks.

[SwingSwangSwung]

Originally Posted by billkath

Aren't you simply then NOT playing the diminished chord-substituting it? Move the bb7 up one and you've got a minor7b5, or if you're doing a triad raising the b3 gives you a major 6 chord etc? It's the same as instead of comping a dom7 you can play a m7/m6 thang?

Yeah, you are creating subs, but they are nice sounding/easy subs.

[hed_b94]

Originally Posted by billkath

Aren't you simply then NOT playing the diminished chord-substituting it? Move the bb7 up one and you've got a minor7b5, or if you're doing a triad raising the b3 gives you a major 6 chord etc? It's the same as instead of comping a dom7 you can play a m7/m6 thang?

Think about it again- you're actually getting 4 different half diminshed chords.

I too, do not understand this. you can get a nice chord, and you can get an unrelated chord which will sound weird.

but it can give you good ideas for half diminished voicings.

[JohnW400]

Raising the note ONE STEP does not make it a mi7b5. You get a slash chord.

G Bb Db Fbb = G , Bb, Db, E, dim 7

A Bb C# E = A (b2) or an invesion of A/Bb
G C Db E = C (b2)/G or an inversion of C/Db
G Bb Eb E = Eb (b2)/ G " " Eb/E
G A# C# F# = F# (b2) or F#/G

It is also a mi/ma7b5 (ii) that resolves nicely to the V7b9


Raising each note in the diminished chord a half step at a time will eventually bring you to a major seventh. This is how Pat Martino shows it in one of his books

[billkath]

I misread-I was thinking 1 fret, not 1 step.

[JohnW400]

Figured that

The thing about this ML tip is that you're forming more than just the ones I mention above.

You get some real usable chords from the diminished scale

Take Gdim7 voiced G x E Bb Db x and raise the Db to Eb (G x E Bb Eb x)

This could be an F#13b9/G, C7#9/G , A7b9 alt 5/G or Eb (b2) as we as an altered diminished chord.

[Greg Brouelette]

Also, if you lower any note in a diminished chord you're now playing a 7th chord with the root being what ever that lowered note is.

Diminished
Db E G Bb

Lower Db to C
C E G Bb gives you C7th

Go back to the diminished
Db E G Bb

Try lowering the Bb which gives you

A C#(Db) E G = A7

You do this conversion in the blues a lot. Think of the first few chords of a blues in Bb

Four beats each
Bb7 Eb7 Bb7

Try this
Bb7 4 beats

Eb7 2 beats

Raise the Eb root to E leaving all the other notes the same giving you
Edim 2 beats

Bb7 4 beats.

You hear this in measure 6 of a blues a lot (4 beats each unless stated otherwise)
Bb7
Eb7
Bb7
Bb7
Eb7
E dim
Bb7
G7
C7
F7
(now 2 beats each)
Bb7 G7 C7 F7

(back to the beginning)
Bb7

[jzucker]

Originally Posted by billkath

Aren't you simply then NOT playing the diminished chord-substituting it?

No, you're just adding extensions to it (9,11,13 etc)

[bako]

Originally Posted by jzucker

No, you're just adding extensions to it (9,11,13 etc)

Adim--------A C Eb Gb

Adim9-------B C Eb Gb

Adim11------A D Eb Gb

Adimb13-----A C F Gb

AdimMa7----A C Eb G#

Jack,

Did I get this right in representing what you are saying (extensions on the diminished chord)?

Thanks,
Bako

[JonnyPac]

You know, I have kinda controversial views on dim harmony... I like those voicings, but I think ML's denial of the harmonic min scale made him overemphasize the 8-note dim scale in it's place, IMHO.

I posted a lesson on dim chord-scale theory here from my book and youtube:

Dominant Diminished Harmony - Chord Scale Theory in Music Theory, Guitar Lessons and Song Writing Tools Forum

I call diminished 7th chords "diminished tetrads" and think of them as partial dominants in all cases; rootless or otherwise. I'll probably burn in hell for it, but that's my ear.

[jzucker]

Originally Posted by bako

Adim--------A C Eb Gb

Adim9-------B C Eb Gb

Adim11------A D Eb Gb

Adimb13-----A C F Gb

AdimMa7----A C Eb G#

Jack,

Did I get this right in representing what you are saying (extensions on the diminished chord)?


Thanks,
Bako

Yes. Here are some interesting chord voicings you can use as diminished or dom7...

Yes, you can also move more notes than just the one of course.

For example, i often use this voicing as Abdim7 (G7) from low to high:

F C# D G



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Move it up in minor 3rds.

Try an Ab in place of the G.


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Try an Bb in place of the G.



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Or an Ab in place of the F



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