Internalizing Drop 2's for a newbie

[meathman]

I'm a newbie to jazz guitar comping (spent most my time up until now in the rock genre of playing). At first I was overwhelmed with where to start - all the jazz chord inversions and tensions were alot to absorb. My friend suggested I start with drop 2 chords. I memorized the basic maj7, dom7, m7, m7b5 and dim7 chords on the upper and middle sets of strings in all 4 inversions. I've been paying close attention to where the chord tones are and know to substitute 6 for 7th's, 9 for root, and 11 (#11) and 13 for 5.

To try and help this material sink in, I've been opening a real book, and trying to comp chords from tunes using these drop 2's, which has helped. Thing is, I have a feeling that there are some rules I'm missing, or there are some inversions I should be avoiding.

For example, when building a drop 2 G13 chord in 2nd inversion on the upper set of strings, i get an unpleasant sounding chord. with the 13th as the low note (I subbed the 13 for the 5th). Are there a set of rules or inversions that I need to learn for drop 2's to avoid this type of thing.

I'm also wondering if it's better to memorize all the chords with tensions rather than trying to build them on the fly...... Just curious how others internalized this stuff......

Thanks

[Drumbler]

I memorized inversions of major, minor and dominant 7th chords only and others just by learning them as needed. I don't think about what tone is on top or bottom, just what note. Maybe I'm lazy. If I see a Cmaj chord with an E on top I can come up with it but I don't think Cmaj with a third on top at the time.

Everything is either major, minor or dominant. Dim I consider dominant.

If it sounds good it is good.

But there are techniques such as voice leading you could read up on.

Make up your own chord melodies and put your chords to use. Use it or lose it. You don't need to learn a million chords honestly.

[max_power]

Looks like you're 100% on the right track.

The reason the G13 you're trying do play isn't sounding good is because it contains a b9 interval: your lowest note is an E, and your highest note is an F. Generally you'll want to avoid this.

This also occurs when playing a drop-2 maj7 chord with the root on top:

-8-
-8-
-9-
-9-
-x-
-x-

The lowest note is a B, and the highest note is a C. Because of this b9 interval, this chord sounds a little dissonant. I'll leave it to you to figure out what to do in these situations, since you seem to be doing just fine on your own.

To answer your second question, yes, you should work out how to alter these chord shapes to include tensions before hand. Also, make sure you practice using the new chords you've come up with in context. A nice sounding chord is great, but if you can't voice lead it well then there's really no point! I always practice any new chord forms either in the context of a ii-V-I, or in a spot in a specific tune, to make sure I can voice lead it properly.

[meathman]

thanks for the responses. I guess I should just keep practicing and be patient. Internalizing this stuff to the point of being able to use it without thinking probably takes LOTS of time.

I did come across Willmott's book "Complete book of harmony and voicing". It seems jam packed with lots of good exercises. What are your thoughts on this book? The one thing that seems a bit overwhelming is the amount of substitutions he presents. I'm assuming for a drop 2's newbie, I should stay away from all those subs and stick with nailing the standard chords first. Seems like it can all be a bit mind boggling.....?

[bako]

Re: Brett Willmott's book

I think there are simpler ways to access the same harmonic info without memorizing 1000 superimposition relationships but with that said it is one of my favorite books.
It is very well organized and packed with great voicing ideas.

[meathman]

Thanks Bako

Out of curiosity, can you give some examples of simpler ways to access the harmonic info without memorizing endless substitutions.....

[docbop]

Originally Posted by meathman

Thanks Bako

Out of curiosity, can you give some examples of simpler ways to access the harmonic info without memorizing endless substitutions.....

You don't memorized sub's you memories where they come from.

Simple sub's

Chord Sub(s)
I Maj7 iii mi7 and vi mi7

ii mi7 IV Maj7

V7 vii mi7b5

With that you can quickly figure out basic sub's in any key/chord. Notice most the subs are build off the 3rd of the original chord. C Maj7 sub Emi7

Then the classic Tritone sub for 7th chords.

With those basic sub's and your chord inversions you can play a lot of music. Music is based on math and once you start seeing the formulas you can use them anywhere.

[bako]

One easier way is working with modal extensions.

7th chords derived from C melodic minor

CmMa7
Dm7
EbMa7+
F7
G7
Am7b5
Bm7b5

Now view each chord in relation to each scale tone as a root.

Root note: C

CmMa7-----1 b3 5 7
Dm7--------9 11 13 1
EbMa7+-----b3 5 7 9
F7------------11 13 1 b3
G7------------5 7 9 11
Am7b5-------6 1 b3 5
Bm7b5-------7 9 11 13

Root note: F

CmMa7-----5 b7 9 #11
Dm7--------6 1 3 5
EbMa7+-----b7 9 #11 13
F7------------1 3 5 b7
G7------------9 #11 13 1
Am7b5--------3 5 b7 9
Bm7b5--------#11 13 1 3

Do the same for the other 5 scale derived root notes. Some harmonies you will like and find useful and others less so.

The way I study this is to improvise, playing materials from the scale against pedal tone vamps of each note.
The analysis is cool but I am most interested in teaching my ears the component sounds of a given note collection.

After 7ths you can try other scale structures including harmonizations based on 1 3 7 9 // 1 5 7 9 // 1 7 9 11 // or 4th chords
1 4 7 // 1 4 7 3 // or chordal pairs etc.

On a day with too much time on my hands I explore structures in relation to 12 chromatic root notes.

I don't just want to know a formula, I need to know what it sounds like. For me this is a better path to the similar end.
But as I said I think it is a great book.