11th Chord Voicings...

mtierney · #1 03-01-2011, 09:48 PM

Major, minor, and dominant. What do you all use for 11th chord voicings?

I'm having trouble getting the root in the bass of the chord in a way that's easy to grab quickly enough for a chord melody... The best I can make would look like this (in minor form)...

e-5-
B---
G-7-
D-5-
A-7-
E---

Thanks for the help guys!

JonnyPac · #2 03-01-2011, 10:26 PM

Quartal forms and "so what" pentatonic vocings are great for 11ths.

I think of min11 chords as simple extensions on min7 or min9th chords.

The others are usually trickier. An 11th in a dom chord is often a sus type chord. For example G7sus4 is pretty much G11, F/G, Dm7/G, etc.

11ths in major are usually augmented 4ths (#11). These are usually Lydian chords. There are a lot of great upper structure voicings for these.

#11 is common in altered doms too. These have M3s unlike the typical sus forms.

I have a lot of guitar voicings in other threads, so I don't want to clutter up the forum here... Check them out if you like.
http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/theor...l-harmony.html

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/compi...ny-guitar.html

Hope that helps.

mtierney · #3 03-01-2011, 11:52 PM

That does help, thank you! I'm going to save those links there are some interesting chord shapes. The only question that this would bring up for me is do you think some of these chords sound too tonally ambiguous to use in a chord melody? I know that part of the point of the chords is that they're stacked fourths and that they're purposely ambiguous, but even so...

Thanks again!

JohnW400 · #4 03-02-2011, 08:22 AM

Major is easy enough. 3 moves to 4 . Fma7 F x E A C x becomes Fma11 = F x E Bb C x

But you'll notice it's kind of resembles C7/F or C11

very ambiguous chord.

The quick and easy way to get a dominant 11 sound is play a major triad with it's second in the bass. This second becomes the root F/G = G11.
of course this version does not contain the 3rd.

Minor 11 could be played the same way since you're leaving out the 3rd, however the more used way is to drop 5 to 4 and maintain the mi3rd.

Gmi7= G x F Bb D x Gmi11 = G x F Bb C x

The mi11b5 is the trickier one. I've come up with more versions than I can shake a stick at. The quickest way to get a good voicing it think backwards for a minute. Take a major 7 b5 . The b5 is the root of the mi7b5

Cma7b5 = C x B E Gb x. This chord is the same as F#mi11b5/C ( b5th x 11th 7th root x).

JonnyPac · #5 03-04-2011, 05:11 PM

Yeah, they lean toward ambiguity, but they are still harmonically specific enough. I arranged a chord melody version of Giant Steps with them and it sounds very clear (it's tabbed out here on the forum still). Using 4ths and SW with other forms is best, IMHO.

You can search my entire chord section in my book on amazon now. Amazon.com: Chord-Scale Theory and Linear Harmony for Guitar: Creative Tools for Improvisation and Composition in Contemporary Music (9780615431116): Jonathan Pac Cantin, Jacob Chilton: Books

Use the SEARCH field and put in key words from the table of contents. The PDF is clear enough to read and study. It covers shells to upper structures. It also goes over how to build voicings on demand from intervals, scales, and modes. Hope it helps.

Best wishes!

mtierney · #6 03-04-2011, 09:19 PM

Thanks a lot JonnyPac! You wrote that book? Impressive that you wrote a book answering all my questions before I even asked them! Thanks again!

JonnyPac · #7 03-04-2011, 09:22 PM

Sure did. I'm still working on the next revisions... little details. Thanks and best to ya!! PM me if ever want a copy. I give direct discounts, etc.

mtierney · #8 03-04-2011, 11:28 PM

I'm considering it, as I don't really have enough jazz theory material. May I get a more detailed synopsis?

JonnyPac · #9 03-06-2011, 12:48 AM

Well, I'd say read the thread on it here in the theory forum, and please ignore the few troll posts in it. You can also read the intro on amazon. If you click SEE ALL EDITORIAL REVIEWS it will show lots of info. Hope that helps.

Burt Ligon's books are great too, though not very guitar oriented. You need to apply the concepts yourself. Very good text/examples on jazz.

Robertkoa · #10 05-06-2011, 08:04 PM

I love ambiguous chords that aren't too dissonant .....

I might start a thread about that so I can steal some voicings from you "true jazz " guys and use them for my overlapping fusion stuff- where Rock and R@B overlap a bit into Jazz.......

A personal quirk of mine is I don't call a Chord an 11th, especially if it's a Minor unless the 3rd is also present.

And even with Major or Dominant type chords - unless I've got a third in there as well , I usually don't call it an 11th chord if it has no third, because if the 3rd is replaced , it's usually is a Sus 4 sound- but if it's an 11th chord then I personally want the third in there also.

Minor 11ths are some of my favorite sounding chords.

JonnyPac · #11 05-06-2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robertkoa

I love ambiguous chords that aren't too dissonant .....

I might start a thread about that so I can steal some voicings from you "true jazz " guys and use them for my overlapping fusion stuff- where Rock and R@B overlap a bit into Jazz.......

+1

Here's link to all of my slippery voicings...
Jazz Piano Style Guitar Voicings in Music Theory, Guitar Lessons and Song Writing Tools Forum

Also check out Jack's cool 4th lesson thread. It's got some really nice inversions.
http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...son-video.html