Drop 2 Cycle Exercises for RichVincent

[604bourne123]

when i listen to the voicings going from 2/5/1/ to 2/5/1 a fifth away around the circle the most is the linear order that keeps nice and tidy.the bar chords limit the improvisation.

[FatJeff]

I think I get what you're saying, MW. You can take any closed-position seventh chord (in any of the 4 possible inversions), lower the second from the top voice an octave, and get a drop-2 voicing. So:

1 3 5 7 becomes 5 1 3 7
3 5 7 1 becomes 7 3 5 1
5 7 1 3 becomes 1 5 7 3
7 1 3 5 becomes 3 7 1 5

To tell the truth, I doubt if it makes much of a difference (other than academically) what the order of the inner voices...to my ear, at least, the most audible characteristic of a given 7th chord is what inversion it is. The whole point of drop-2 chords as far as I can tell is to "spread" the sound across more audible spectrum, changing a tight, closed voicing to one that is more spacious. Given that, you could probably call just about any non-closed voicing "drop-2", not just the ones that drop the second from top voice, if you're willing to relax your definition a bit (which I am).

Good topic!

[Stringbean]

Originally Posted by m78w

They call them a drop 2 voicing because the second interval of the chord is "dropped" an octave.

So the chord in it's original form is:

1 3 5 7

and in the Drop 2 form it is

1 5 7 3

so the 3, the 2nd note in the chord, is dropped by an octave.

Hope that helps
MW

ok, but isn't the 2nd note "raised" an octave?

[Stringbean]

Originally Posted by Stringbean

ok, but isn't the 2nd note "raised" and octave?

Oh, I see....
not the 2nd "note" ,,,it's the second "interval" (like you said), that is "dropped".

In a 1 3 5 7 voicing...
-the second interval is the 3rd to the 5th. we "drop" that by putting the 3rd on top, .....oh jezus...my head melting....never mind.

[FatJeff]

Stringbean, every definition I've found on the internet (as well as the one given to me in a university jazz theory class) defines a "drop-X voicing" as taking the Xth voice in a closed-position chord (counting down from the top) and *dropping* it an octave. Thus, a drop-2 takes the second from the top voice (G in a CMaj7 chord), drops it an octave, and places it as the bass note. So C E G B (closed position) becomes G C E B.

There is nothing in the definition of drop-2 chords that specifies anything about moving intervals. It's all about moving individual notes around.

You could also have a "drop-1" voicing (which would be the same as the third invsersion in a seventh chord), or a drop-3 voicing, which would place the second from the bottom note in a seventh chord in the bass, or I guess even a drop-4 voicing, which would place the bottom note in a seventh chord in the bass (where it already is, so it ends up being the same chord).

The main difference between drop-X voicings and inversions - as far as I can tell - is that inversions maintain the order of the notes in the chord, modulo-4 for sevenths and modulo-3 for triads. Drop-X voicings take a note out of its original location within the triadic structure of a chord and drop it to the bottom of the chord. So, with plain inversions, you can have at most a third in between any two notes. Whereas with a drop voicing, you can have larger intervals (like a fifth). This leads to more "open" chords.

Clear as mud, no? :-0

M78W has a slightly different take on all of this, which he says is equivalent. I'm still not 100% convinced, but then again, I'm new at this stuff, so what do I know? :-)

[Stringbean]

Originally Posted by FatJeff

rd).

The main difference between drop-X voicings and inversions - as far as I can tell - is that inversions maintain the order of the notes in the chord, modulo-4 for sevenths and modulo-3 for triads. Drop-X voicings take a note out of its original location within the triadic structure of a chord and drop it to the bottom of the chord. So, with plain inversions, you can have at most a third in between any two notes. Whereas with a drop voicing, you can have larger intervals (like a fifth). This leads to more "open" chords.

By George, I think I've got it!! Thanks man

[Silence]

I recently purchased the "Barry Harris Harmonic method for Guitar", and he uses these Drop voicing's as well. I still do not understand the concept though. There are several answers that I got from this forum:

In a 1357 voicing, you take the second interval from the bass (which I am assuming 1 is the bass) and drop it an octave making it the bass note, making it a "drop 2" inversion which spells as 3157.

The second answer :

You take the 2nd to highest voice in a7th chord spelled as 1357 - and drop it to make it the bass note of the chord, making it now spelled as 5137, and then proceeding with that formula to get 3517, and finally back to 1357 . . but how do you extract the drop voicing with the 7th in the bass?

The third answer

Also one jazz site says that you take the second (highest) note in a chord and drop it to the bass to make a drop2??

and

If the definition is just raising the 2nd note of a 7 chord up an octave aren't there many more drop2s?

.......I'm more or less confused with the third suggestion . . . . . why would you raise the second to last interval in a 7th chord up an octave if they are called "drop 2" voicings . . . . that sounds kind of contradictory to the whole concept and makes things a lot more confusing, but I feel like that is not the right answer.......

So what is the right answer?

In the Barry Harris book, it has the first voicing spelled as 3571, so if you were to make a drop 2 voicing out of that chord formation, it would now spell as : 7351; if you wanted to make a drop 3 voicing, it would now spell out as 5371; if you wanted to make a drop 2 & 3 voicing, it would spell out as 5731; and finally, if you wanted to make a drop 2 & 4 voicing, it would spell out as 3751. What I would like to know, is if the original inversion at the beginning of this paragraph, 3571, is the inversion in which to build this drop chords off of correctly, or can it be done with any number of permutations as the starting point for making these voicings?

Thanks

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by Silence

So what is the right answer?

This may be akin to asking "How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?"

Answer: The world may never know.

I don't know if there is a definitive answer. I'll keep using my definition (take second from top note and drop it an octave to place it in the bass) until such a time as someone convinces me otherwise.

In any case, it probably doesn't really matter all that much which definition you use as long as you understand the concept...and given that guitarists are generally vague by nature anyway, I wouldn't spend much more time fretting about it. Pun intended. :-0

[kape]

A drop2 voicing is taking the second note from the top of any close voiced chord and dropping it an octave.Trust me, there´s nothing more to it

[604bourne123]

Originally Posted by kape

A drop2 voicing is taking the second note from the top of any close voiced chord and dropping it an octave.Trust me, there´s nothing more to it

there is the question?why

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by kape

A drop2 voicing is taking the second note from the top of any close voiced chord and dropping it an octave.Trust me, there´s nothing more to it

Yeah, that's what I thought too...the examples I always saw took that closed voiced chord as a root position seventh, but I can see how it applies to others as well.

[kape]

Originally Posted by 604bourne123

there is the question?why

because on guitar most 4-note close voicings are unplayable, or at least unpractical (though Johnny Smith gave them a good try).Also, consistent voicings help your voice-leading enormously.And, they sound good!

[604bourne123]

Originally Posted by kape

because on guitar most 4-note close voicings are unplayable, or at least unpractical (though Johnny Smith gave them a good try).Also, consistent voicings help your voice-leading enormously.And, they sound good!

that is one of the things that i study my guitar for and drop/2 gives me the feeling/hey you can do something/

[bako]

Here are 6 different 7th chord spacings and their inversions. (attached)
The first group is close inversions and the next one across drop 2.
The 3rd group yields very commonly played guitar voicings.

The 24 inversions yields some fingerings that are challenging/impossible.
I simple break those chord into fragments 1+3, 2+2, 3+1 making everything playable in some fashion.

I leave it to capable others to explain the anatomy of the Drop Voicing jargon. Here is the simple content behind the language.
The inversions are read across.

[604bourne123]

no.12 post helped me alot

[Drumbler]

Very good exercises. Thank you!