Learning new tunes By ear

0zoro · #1 02-05-2011, 05:16 AM

How do you all go about learning taking out chords on a tune by ear? I dont seem to have a teknik that gives me any help, and my following example is not listed anywhere. I have been listening to a song on Bobby Timmons album `The Soul Man`, which more than anything features Wayne Shorter. The group plays a song by Ron Carter, ´Tenaj´, that I have been particularly fond of for years. This is an example of the problem that I am obviously interested in, but how do you all go about cracking the chord code? Do you let the bass line pattern give you direction and elaborate form there, take out notes and build around them?

pierre richard · #2 02-05-2011, 10:49 AM

identify the "root" progression first...then the "quality" of the chord...major,minor,7th,etc...

ear training on that helps much..

when you play a chord...close your eyes and just listen...change to another chord and just listen...hearing is just the first part..you have to listen...

root progression first...

time on the instrument..pierre

patskywriter · #3 02-06-2011, 08:48 AM

there are two things that you should learn how to do:

#1: follow a bass line, being able to figure out where the song is going by paying attention to the basic bass tones. what is the bassist playing on counts 1 and 3? once you're able to figure what the bass player is doing, you can build chords around the bass notes.

#2: once you learn a chord, learn to recognize it when listening to music. once you're able to recognize the chords you know, the easier it will be to play songs by ear. when i listen to guitarists live, i can tell when they've simply learned the chord shapes and play progressions that they've learned on paper. i think that when you learn to play by ear, there's a greater chance that you'll be able to string prettier, more musical chords together than those who "merely read."

Banksia · #4 02-06-2011, 09:19 AM

I learn a signle note line then experiment with possible harmonisations. Often you can hear what the chord is - if you have a blues background you will recognise 7ths and 9ths, for instance.

As others have said, you should be able to hear Major or Minor. If a melody note is A and the chord sounds minor, I would try Am, Dm, F#m, Bm7, Gm9, etc.

You will also get used to hearing progressions and chord relationships. You can hear a 2-5 progression fairly easily and I can generally hear I-IV-Vs or I-vim or I-VI7. Of course it is a bit harder to tell whether it's A7b13b9 because often players will sub those chords from one verse to the next.

I think I learnt a lot of this from my first few years playing, when I didn't know many chords, didn't know many progressions and played acoustic guitar. I tended to rely on the sound of the guitar rather than the theory of progressions.

0zoro · #5 02-06-2011, 12:34 PM

Thanks! I know this seems easy, but it aint!

FatJeff · #6 02-06-2011, 01:05 PM

But it does get easier the more you do it.

ksjazzguitar · #7 02-06-2011, 04:25 PM

I learned to play by ear mainly by playing standards. I learned what the different things sounds like. What does a ii-V sound like? What does it sounds like when you sub a iim7b5-V7 over it? What does a iii-VI-ii-Vi sound like? What does vm7-I7-IVMaj7 sound like? What about IV-iv? How about iv-bVII7. I just kind of identified standard chord moves that I was encountering all the time. and started "internalizing" them. It got to the point where I could just look at a chord chart and "hear" the chord changes just by analyzing them, mainly just hearing how the root and the guide tones move.

Obviously, this will mainly work with chord progressions that follow these basic patterns. But since there are so many songs that do, it is a good place to start. It's slightly OT of what you are asking, but I think that that is a great place to start developing your ability to hear chord progressions.

Peace,
Kevin

max_power · #8 02-06-2011, 05:40 PM

What Kevin said... a lot of it has to do with being able to hear chord progressions that are extremely common in jazz, such as major and minor ii-V-Is, common ways of modulating to different keys, diminished chords as a bridge between two chords a whole tone apart (in either direction), etc. Try to figure out the chord progression by ear, and write down what you've figured out. Then find a lead sheet or transcription, either in the Real Book or from some other source, and listen to a recording of the tune while following along on the transcription... listen to what the chord changes sound like, and try to be able to recognize what's going on. I was going to type up a few examples, but I don't want to hijack this thread, so I started a new one about common chord progressions in jazz. That thread can be found here: http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/compi...tml#post122108

Another thing you can do is to transcribe a bit of the solo, which hopefully outlines the chords enough that you can figure them out.

pingu · #9 02-06-2011, 06:24 PM

Yeah and this skill is really where its at for being able to
hear changes and consequently to improvise well on a song

Start with really simple tunes you can hear ,
even nursery rhymes are great for this ,
then to Standard show tunes
you've got to get those ear muscles moving and working

It's cumulative so it all builds up into someting usable quite quickly

Also playing along with gold type radio stations is good for the ears
not noodling , I mean listening out for where it goes to the vi chord etc

Maxp's other thread is right on the money

FatJeff · #10 02-06-2011, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksjazzguitar

I learned to play by ear mainly by playing standards. I learned what the different things sounds like. What does a ii-V sound like? What does it sounds like when you sub a iim7b5-V7 over it? What does a iii-VI-ii-Vi sound like? What does vm7-I7-IVMaj7 sound like? What about IV-iv? How about iv-bVII7. I just kind of identified standard chord moves that I was encountering all the time. and started "internalizing" them. It got to the point where I could just look at a chord chart and "hear" the chord changes just by analyzing them, mainly just hearing how the root and the guide tones move.

This is exactly where I'm at right now. I've immersed myself so much in the jazz idiom over the past couple of years that now when I'm hearing changes, I say to myself, "Oh, that little harmonic device - I know that one!" The most recent one for me was the #iv-VII, which I basically view as an extension of the ii-VI-ii-V-I.

The bottom line is this stuff takes time and effort, but it's not that tough a nut to crack if you really get after it.

0zoro · #11 02-07-2011, 01:04 AM

Thanks again guys. i really appreciate the advise. Part of everyones motivation, and thus their questions, is the emurstion in music that is at least one step over their (my) heads. On the other hand thats why were here. Thank you!

RogerAxetrample · #12 05-17-2011, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierre richard

identify the "root" progression first...then the "quality" of the chord...major,minor,7th,etc...

ear training on that helps much..

when you play a chord...close your eyes and just listen...change to another chord and just listen...hearing is just the first part..you have to listen...

root progression first...

time on the instrument..pierre

Hi, i completely agree with this.
Figure out the root jumps. Shouldn't be difficult.
Next, determine chord quality. Every chord quality has it's own 'color'. If you're not sure on a chord quality, sing the pitches you think your hear from the root up, so 1, 3, 5, 7 (9). Any extensions are usually also easy to spot.
I'm now transcribing all the chord changes to the first 7 original Steely Dan albums by ear, it's a lot of fun!
Roger

RogerAxetrample · #13 05-17-2011, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatJeff

This is exactly where I'm at right now. I've immersed myself so much in the jazz idiom over the past couple of years that now when I'm hearing changes, I say to myself, "Oh, that little harmonic device - I know that one!" The most recent one for me was the #iv-VII, which I basically view as an extension of the ii-VI-ii-V-I.

The bottom line is this stuff takes time and effort, but it's not that tough a nut to crack if you really get after it.

Hi,
yep that's right! And the cool thing about it is, that this ability can be developed further and further. I had a jazz piano harmony teacher who could write down the changes to the craziest modern jazz stuff at first listen. He could also name all the voices in both hands if i played a 10-finger, random, nonse chord on the piano.
That was really inspiring to me, to see just how far you can take this stuff.
Roger

0zoro · #14 05-17-2011, 10:47 AM

Thanks Rog It inspires me and baffles me at the same time.

Stringbean · #15 05-17-2011, 12:13 PM

It's all there on the record. You can think about roots and major/minor harmonics but you don't need to. A zen like practice is to forget about all such labeling and simply play with one string and the record. When you get it swinging, then you can analyze it with your theoretical knowledge (or not, just keep it swingin).