Trying to name a chord . . .

[Silence]

I tried looking for several different sights that would explain how I could name this chord, but nothing really helped.

Basically, I have a chord spelled :

Bb, Ab, Db, G

I want to call this a Bbm6.

What do you call the chord if I used a Gb/F# in the G's place? Bbm7#5?

[Dark Star]

Bb-7/13 maybe?
Try this site if you haven't already:
http://jguitar.com/chordname
It's not perfect, but I have found it very useful.

[bako]

Using just major scale modes
Bb Ab Db G is dorian
Bb Ab Db Gb is either aeolian or phrygian.

Alot of times I create voicings on the fly by choosing adjacent tones from the mode. I don't worry so much about the individual name in that I think of the mode as one chordal family in which any note can be mixed and matched (with some discretion).

But in response to your question.

Bb Ab Db F# is:
Bbm7#5
Bb Ab Db Gb is:
Gbadd9

If the first chord was Bb Ab D G then that's a generic Bb13 guitar voicing.
Bb Ab Db G Bbm13

Functional harmonic context might lead me to assign a different name. How are you using this chord?

[Reg]

Hey silence... I use that voicing a lot, sometimes I bar 1st finger across and include the 11th or Eb, or Bb,Eb,Ab,Db and G. I use it in a Bb dorian context, with or without the Eb. More of a percussive voicing, sometimes followed by Eb,Ab,D,F and C. It's not really a 6th chord, most of the time I use it in modal context and just call it a Bb-13, even though the 9th isn't voiced, I feel it's implied. I rarely let that style of voicing sustain very long, to thich, use as punch or part of modal voicing under more important lead line... Reg

[Silence]

Thanks a lot for all in the input. How you explained it as either a Bb-7#5 made sense, but I didn't take the time to realize it was also a Gbadd9 chord. Thanks, Bako.

[Reg]

I don't hear Bb-7#5, unless maybe in Line cliche, secret agent man thing, and that's usually also spelled b13. Most min. chords have a b13, actually I can't think of any Min. chord with #5. Usually with that style of voicing,(4ths), your usually implying Eb-, when coming from Bb-13. The G goes to Gb or 3rd of Eb-. Where would the Bb-7#5 come from if you decided to spell it as #5. The Gbadd9 looks good on papper... I guess you could also call it a Dbsus13, or Dbsus6... and why not... Absus7add9...pretty silly... you could even start implying deceptive chords... sorry... six gigs this week. What do you hear as the root... spell from there... music is not that complicated... we make it so... Best Reg

[bako]

Reg,

I haven't seen it appear as a b13 in charts using those ascending/descending sequences, but that doesn't make m7#5 modally correct as you point out.
So Aeolian and Phrygian are really b13 spellings. I think the name emerges as a chromatic alteration of the 5th conception rather than a modal one.
It's an imprecise world out there. Thanks for your part in keeping us more honest.

[Reg]

Hey bako... Yea... I usually see it notated as #5 going up and b13 going down or what ever requires least amount of accents... and I think that's one of the problems. Rather than worry about what 's implied... it's what's least amount of work. When you play over the line cliche... what modes, scale or vertical collection of notes do you hear on each horizontal note.... I personal hear modes of minor rather than the actual 5th degree being altered. If there's room sometimes I play, for example... Bb Har.. to Gb lyd.(Bb aeol.) to Eb lydb7 (BbMM). I'm not suggesting scales, just giving reference points for source of harmonic areas. Buy the way... Your replies and posts are great, you really help a lot of players and I dig your thought process... Thanks Reg

[fep]

Reg, I hear what you say and we've had this discussion before.

In theory Bbm7b13 is the chord and I'm playing aeolian as a scale reference.

In practice I'd write Bbm7#5 (and I'm still playing aeolian - 1 2 b3 4 5 #5 7 - kind of crazy as that #5 should be a b6 (or b13))...

However, I think players are use to seeing the chord symbol Bbm7#5 and are not use to the chord symbol Bm7b13. And I think most players will play the proper group of tones when they see Bbm7#5.

Therefore, notating the chord as Bbm7#5 makes it easier to read and more likely to be played correctly.

My vote is for the practical over the theoretical in this case.

[Reg]

So are we reinforcing bad habits and adding to the guitar player joke repertoire... take them to the cliff and say jump and they will... Hey Fep I'm just having fun... Your a great asset to this Forum , and I personally always dig your posts...I have these conversations in Big Bands, ensembles, in the studio, on the road...you really have the time with more than a few gigs... most musicians are simi-illiterate when it comes to music theory...really. There still great players... It really doesn't make a difference to me, I understand what most charts are trying to say... I think that's one of the reasons I get lots of calls. Does this relate to your thread why guitar players don't sight read well... just a thought. I'm playing a gig tonight where I could put any chart out there and it would still be a blues... Best Reg