Latin Big Band Chord Voicings

jbraun002 · #1 07-21-2010, 07:41 PM

Howdy all,

I just started playing in a big band after a long hiatus. I remember all my Freddie Green voicings and comping style, but I can't for the life of me remember how I approached Latin tunes (e.g., Bossas).

What voicing practices do you usually use when you guys do this? Obviously I want to stay out of the piano's way, but if I use simple triads I'll probably have to at least harmonically overlap the piano. And my instinct is that the kind of chords I'd use for a combo/singer would be too dense (i.e., a full c-9 on 5-4-3-2).

But... maybe I'm wrong. So what do you do?

patskywriter · #2 07-21-2010, 08:58 PM

why not spend some time listening to some bossa nova? it's still available on streaming radio and you can pick up some great ideas by listening to pioneers like tom jobím, joão gilberto, oscar castro-neves, marcos valle, helio delmiro, and luíz bonfá.

it's possible that the pianist won't comp with any authenticity; if he or she sounds 'square,' you can step in and set a nice groove. of course, to recognize a nice groove you'd have to get familiar with it ... which is why i suggested you do a lot of listening.

jbraun002 · #3 07-21-2010, 09:28 PM

Hi, thanks for the tip. However, it's not playing bossa nova per se that I'm having difficulties with - it's playing in a big band setting, and in particular, it's wondering whether to use fuller voicings or not (or whether those will sound muddy).

Maybe I'll try and comp like I might in a combo setting and see how it sounds. I've only played with them once, and we only did one latin tune, so it's hard to know what will work.

vac4873 · #4 07-21-2010, 09:36 PM

I think you are on the right track with the Freddie Green approach. I think you should try to accentuate the extensions and or alterations for the most part. I would play mostly 3rds, 7ths and 9ths, in 2 or 3 note chord pieces. For the most part in latin, the bass has got the root and 5th groove covered.

patskywriter · #5 07-21-2010, 10:09 PM

again, i suggest that you listen to the pianist. chances are, the freddie green approach might end up sounding muddy if you and the pianist are playing in the same range. see what happens. if you're not satisfied, then try listening to the guitarists i mentioned earlier and learn to play chords higher up the neck.

i used to play in a big band (salsa band) with a pianist who wasn't familiar with latin rhythms (he was a jazz student from russia). i was able to carry the chordal rhythms by playing just above where he usually played. when he took solos i'd drop down to his 'domain.' it sounded pretty good.

vac4873 · #6 07-21-2010, 10:21 PM

agree with patsky that you stay in a different register than the piano. What I meant was that your "less is more" approach will benefit you. For the most part, the bigger the ensemble, the leaner your playing should tend.

Reg · #7 07-25-2010, 10:03 AM

I've played in BBs all my life, way fun... In latin big bands it's usually all about the montunos... if the piano is covering, you double lead line or punch or play short rhythmic chords on accents of the rhythmic style. This is more common with Afro-Cuban charts. With the Brazilian style, depending on chart, guitar will comp and piano will blanket harmony. To me, as in all comping styles, your lead line should be a standard melody, counter melody or a groove melody. All latin music has a rhythmic accent patterns... you need to learn them all... once you have them under your belt, it's staying in the groove... Best Reg

fep · #8 07-25-2010, 11:59 AM

Like Reg said, I've found I've got to become fluent in montunas to play in a latin jazz band.

I play in a latin jazz band (guitar, drums, bass, vibes) and the leader (a vibe players) wants me to play montunas most of the time. Montunas? I didn't even know what that meant.

So, I had to work some out at home as I wasn't able to pull them off on the fly. I wrote them out for several of our tunes and I'm starting to develop a "montuna vocabulary" and can now play them over progressions on the fly...

The trick is to get that two measure synchopated rhythm grooving and be able to play it/modify it to fit the underlyying progression.

Here's an example of one I wrote out for Manteca... we solo over a 12 bar blues and the leader wanted the accompainment to be a montuna...

This is at about 200bpm:

Reg · #9 07-25-2010, 05:14 PM

Hey Fep... very cool...great montuno for 12 bar blues, most of the time the solo section of Manteca is 8 bar "A", repeated, followed by 16 bar bridge and then 16 bars of Bb montuno. The solo section is usually a Mambo (2-3 Clave)
Here's a sample of Bb montuno... If you don't have changes check in Sher's "The Latin Real Book"...Best Reg

fep · #10 07-29-2010, 04:51 PM

Hi Reg,

(This post slipped off the 1st page and I missed it).

Thanks for the montuna... I don't have one like it and I'm adding it to my vocabulary.

Cheers

Rontogeny · #11 08-03-2010, 06:29 PM

Both of these montunos are very helpful. Can anyone point to a good source for the kind of latin music that uses these? I've seen a good looking Putamayo 3-CD set of latin jazz, but it looks like it might be somewhat dated. Any other sources?

Ron

Reg · #12 08-03-2010, 06:54 PM

Look in back of Latin Real Book and play top notes of piano parts or much better just listen to a few real latin bands and learn them... there are only a few rhythmic patterns the notes just change. They play a little different than there notated in most books, the notations usually right... it's the feel. Best Reg