Octaves in your chords... Is it taboo or something?

JohnS · #1 07-21-2010, 01:27 PM

Does anyone else do it? For example a c major with a c,e,b,e,a

i think it sounds nice and thats what matters but i never see chord voicings with octaves besides the power chord type major chords...

mr. beaumont · #2 07-21-2010, 01:31 PM

I'd say nothing's taboo, but when comping, I'm often limiting myself to three and four note max chords to avoid sonic clutter. So when you have such a small pallete, why use the same color twice?

JohnS · #3 07-21-2010, 01:37 PM

True! So if i wanted a major 13 id play just the top 3 voicings as i comp

Jake Hanlon · #4 07-21-2010, 01:42 PM

Often times if you're playing more then 4 note voicings they start to get muddy, smaller voicings are clearer to hear, easier to play and more efficient.

Double of notes in voicings also in a theory mindset follows a specific pattern. As well, when eliminating notes from chords to economize them, the root is always first to go, the root is also not doubled before the 3rd.

But if it sounds good to you, then who cares right.

bako · #5 07-21-2010, 02:55 PM

C Dominant chords encased in an octave Bb on the top 4 strings

Bb C E Bb
Bb C F# Bb
Bb C G Bb
Bb C G# Bb
Bb C A Bb

Bb Db E Bb
Bb Db F# Bb
Bb Db G Bb
Bb Db G# Bb
Bb Db A Bb

Bb D E Bb
Bb D F# Bb
Bb D G Bb
Bb D G# Bb
Bb D A Bb

Bb D# E Bb
Bb D# F# Bb
Bb D# G Bb
Bb D# G# Bb
Bb D# A Bb

Bb E E Bb
Bb E F# Bb
Bb E G Bb
Bb E G# Bb
Bb E A Bb

The dominant function of the chords in bold can be clarified by an E or C note added below.
Anything too stretchy can still be addressed by playing the chords broken.

Harmony is made up by the sum total of notes played in a band and it is not always required that a guitar be responsible for all of it. Also if a voicing feels incomplete then it can be followed up with or preceded by another chord that fills in the missing details.

I feel that this is an area that is rich in possibilities and worth exploring and as Jake says "if it sounds good to you".

ejwhite09 · #6 07-27-2010, 04:24 PM

I remember the first time I played with hipper cats, you know not basically not rock or blues players, I had just left a power punk band, and I went in to play with them and I was playing bar chords and full voicings and I sounded like shit, and I felt like, you know that feeling when you just feel like everybody is in the room, thinking who let this guy in?

less is more, the less you can play and still bring out the qualities of the chord the better, i would say try to stay on the bottom four strings almost exclusively and really try to stay on either the bottom three, or strings 4, 3, and 2 middle strings. That's really the sweet spot on guitar so you're generally out of everyones way. Just keep it sparse.

The biggest challenge for me playing jazz, coming from a punk rock, blues, rock, background was mentally adjusting to the role of guitar in jazz. Jazz is not very guitar-centric music. Which is why, in my opinion, guys like Charlie, Wes and Django get so much props because they play very guitar-centric jazz. And is very atypical of most jazz settings. As a guitarist your main rhythm duties are to merely play around the piano player. And if you're lucky you'll get a solo. As opposed to being the main comping instrument and the dominant solo instrument.

When I stopped listening to guitar players I got a lot better. I take my main solo inspiration from trumpet players, some perfer sax players(and this was the precursor to guitar in music). For comping, I stuck with piano players but Wes and Django are master compers, but I had to really learn what 'comping' was to understand this.

Reg · #7 07-27-2010, 07:39 PM

Every thing has context... bako and Jake are both great players and know their shit... but in the last 15 to 20 years our ears have evolved, many harmonic areas are implied, whether played or not. A simple example, from the past could be blues changes, First time through maybe... some don't hear... anyway I hope you follow... and I double notes all the time, or as you say octave in chord voicing. When I comp I'm more concerned about my lead line, inner or bottom line more than catching 3rds or 7ths etc... The harmonic area is heard or implied by the lines, just as by the voicing. Most of the time... lines create better grooves than single chords. But back to context... You will need to be your judge of what your playing... unless someone gets on your shit. Then you need to work on your ears. If you have more examples of your voicings in context, post and I'll gladly check them out... Best Reg

fumblefingers · #8 07-27-2010, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reg

Every thing has context... bako and Jake are both great players and know their shit... but in the last 15 to 20 years our ears have evolved, many harmonic areas are implied, whether played or not. A simple example, from the past could be blues changes, First time through maybe... some don't hear... anyway I hope you follow... and I double notes all the time, or as you say octave in chord voicing. When I comp I'm more concerned about my lead line, inner or bottom line more than catching 3rds or 7ths etc... The harmonic area is heard or implied by the lines, just as by the voicing. Most of the time... lines create better grooves than single chords. But back to context... You will need to be your judge of what your playing... unless someone gets on your shit. Then you need to work on your ears. If you have more examples of your voicings in context, post and I'll gladly check them out... Best Reg

playing octaves in your voicings can also bring out some intonation issues inherit to the instrument. why bother?

Reg · #9 07-28-2010, 07:54 AM

The intonation thing can be a problem, depending on your instrument etc. I don't have that problem, but can relate to out of tune guitar players,(and Alto players), they suck. I do use octaves... a lot . At many gigs instead of playing chords I play background lines and always use octaves. Helps set up grooves, implies downbeats and helps me direct while were playing with out yelling. Also doesn't take up so much space. Half my solos are usually in octaves, whether just octaves or chords with the line doubled in the voicings, (chord solos). If your not taking advantage of octaves, your not using one of the better sounds produced with jazz guitars. I do realize we've moved off the subject of an octave in a simple cmaj7 chord, but I always try and show where techniques can end up or at least try and explain to players to see past the moment... Best Reg

Digit · #10 08-08-2010, 09:22 PM

Depends what function the chord in question performs at that particular junction as well as what purpose it is (soloing, comping...).

When I am comping I generally avoid octaves in chord voicings on the higher register/strings because I feel they 'force' a melodic center and if someone is soloing I want to comp what they are doing it not necessarily dictate the direction they should go (there are cases when I play with people I feel there is more of a communication going that I take things more out there but, that's a different topic).

ON the lower register this is not such a problem. Ex: G, Bb, F, Bb on the lower 4 string. or E, G, D, G starting on the A string (the middle 4 strings).

Of course, if you are comping a melody you have to be careful that whatever note is doubled doesn't clash or make some silly harmony with it...that's a given...

If I am soloing then, anything is game