Taking a Break from Jazz: Learning some Nylon Right Hand Stuff

[NSJ]

So, I've decided to stop taking jazz lessons for the time being and try to develop some right hand skills learning classical guitar. Thankfully, my teacher is an expert at both styles. So, I've stopped bringing in my archtop to lessons and traded it in for a Giannini. My first lesson was all about the right hand, all about the p, i, m, and a, the proper way to angle one's hand, the proper position of i, or the index finger, the proper position of p vis-a-vis i,m,a,c. et al.

I think developing the right hand in a classical guitar will prove to help my jazz playing, so that's why I'm dong it. I'm thinking of people like Lenny Breau and Joe Pass (who pretty much played finger style, unless he was making some fast runs on a pick).

The idea of poliphony, of playing two lines at once, of counterpoint, of providing bass note accompanyment to one's lines, are very very intriguing to me.

Anybody else tried to develop one's right hand in a classical setting, so that one can use these skills in a jazz environment? Did you have any success?

[derek]

I took classical long before I got into jazz, and use a bastardized version of what I learned. Problem is, no footstool, so neck angle isn't the same, messes with proper C technique. Certainly improved my right hand though. Every once in a while I will take a stab at Bouree in Emin or a couple of Tarrega tunes. Ouch! Good luck with it.

[aviy]

Steve Vai and such... For my left hand, though, not right. maybe I should try classical too..

[Baltar Hornbeek]

if you've stopped making progress...i guess yeah try something else. not that i've come to this conclusion ever

[NSJ]

Originally Posted by Baltar Hornbeek

if you've stopped making progress...i guess yeah try something else. not that i've come to this conclusion ever

I don't view it as as *stopping making progress*--I'm still shedding on standards daily and the like on my archtop with a pick, but just concentrating, for the time being, on developing certain skills that jazz guitarists may not emphasize (not all, think Lenny Breau and Joe Pass): i.e., the right hand, polyphony, generating one's own bass lines, counterpoint, the ability to play like a piano player.

[gravyTrain]

I think you can never go wrong studying classical style since it is the (in my world if noone else's) the technical and mental opposite of Jazz.

I find the hardest part has always been the need to become inseparably familiar with the style, embellishments, etc. perfectly note-for-note in classical guitar; vs the music acting as a sounding board (or more of a recommendation) for the jazz guitarist.

It is difficult for me to push myself into new territories, when it is so easy to fall back on older stuff in a classical mentality. However, there is nothing wrong with that and it can become part of a unique style.

The first thing I do is learn the framework of a song, then try to improvise conservatively with whatever I am most comfortable with. So why not 'jazz-up' a non-jazz tune?

Anybody else tried to develop one's right hand in a classical setting, so that one can use these skills in a jazz environment? Did you have any success?

I originally learned banjo, then classical guitar. Once I started playing other styles I found I maintained a pick btwn the thumb-forefinger, and picked with the rest. Which worked well.

Then I decided to just to classical style picking (only fingers, pinky as a rest, and sadly yes... a stool under my foot!) and have found myself to be much better than other efforts.

The truth of the matter is that there is no one way that will suit us all, so maybe whatever position your body is comfortable in IS the way to go.

I have a really OCD issue when it comes to playing different styles of guitar in that I must have the 'appropriate' guitar for the style. However, the truth of the matter is that the guitar is an extension of you. An amplified Tele, Strat, Di'Angelico, ES-175, becomes a sound rather than a defining style-- when in reality YOU define the style regardless of the axe you're using.

As far as classical is concerned, there are a huge pile of exercises (compiled into books) for beginner, intermediate, and advanced classical guitar. The exercises being interesting songs, that is.

[Goofsus4]

I also will play classical from time to time. It's just so very beautiful. Sometimes I just want to play something really pretty. I've said it before and I'll say it again - jazz is cool, and hip, and fun and oftentimes complex and cerebral. But classical is music with the capital M.

I went through just such a break as you are talking about six months ago or so I think. I stopped playing jazz stuff altogether for about a month, and played nothing but classical and learned some fingerstyle Beatles stuff. I certainly think playing classical and finger style pieces really helps you with fingering jazz chord voicings and chord melody type playing. Solo classical guitar itself is really a form of chord melody playing seems like to me.

But maintaining the repertoire of stuff I'd learned started meaning I had no time to keep progressing in jazz without forgetting that stuff, so I just left off of the classical and went back to jazz full time.

[ronjazz]

Isn't it long past time that we stopped segregating musical styles, especially on the guitar? I had two gigs yesterday. The first was a wedding, where I was hired to play the ceremony and the cocktail hour. The ceremony was almost all classical "hits": Bach Cello Suite Prelude, Trumpet Voluntary, Pachelbel Kanon, Sanz Canarios, Vivaldi D Major Adagio, but also "All I Ask Of You" from Phantom Of The Opera. I made an arrangement by finding a friendly key, writing out the melody and changes (like the Real Book) and playing through it a few times to make sure of the position jumps and keeping the melody legato. The cocktail hour was tunes, from Gershwin to Brubeck to Lennon & Mccartney and Santana, all with lots of improv.

I had a new gig at a local restaurant in the evening, mixed age group. I varied from old standards to new standards with a few light Spanish classics and even a few flamenco pieces. There were jazz fans there, as well as pop fans, and a few who recognized the Spanish pieces. This is what the guitar can do, and both jazz knowledge and classical/flamenco techniques combine beautifully to contribute to what I call my life-long work avoidance program, in which I play the guitar for a living. those of you who take the time to work on classical techniques will never regeret it.