Buying guitar for bossa nova...Classical or flamenco?

anightintunisia · #1 06-30-2009, 10:20 PM

So I've been playing bossa on my Joe Pass Emperor for a while, but have been wanting to play more authentic and byy a nylon string. What are the differences between a flamenco and a classical guitar? I'm assuming that classical are used for bossa, but do some players use flamenco nylons? Anyone with some info please let me know! Thanks!

NSJ · #2 06-30-2009, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anightintunisia

So I've been playing bossa on my Joe Pass Emperor for a while, but have been wanting to play more authentic and byy a nylon string. What are the differences between a flamenco and a classical guitar? I'm assuming that classical are used for bossa, but do some players use flamenco nylons? Anyone with some info please let me know! Thanks!

I've heard a great local gypsy guitarist (Alphonso Ponticelli) play that Django style gypsy swing music on a flamenco--worked out great. The rhythm guitarist accompanying him played on traditional gypsy guitar. Play what ya like that sounds good!

What's the difference between the two? Woods, sustain, action.

You may want to check out an excellent Brazilian nylon guitar maker, if you're gonna play bossas/sambas: Giannini Guitars. I have an old Giannini nylon with cutaway and small pup and it sounds very trebly. Maybe a traditional classical may be have a more boomy sound in the bass..not an expert at this, just some impressions.

anightintunisia · #3 06-30-2009, 10:58 PM

My guess is that flamenco guitars probably have lower action, and more of a trebly sound and classical have slightly higher action with a more bassy tone? Now that I'm thinking about it, I think a flamenco guitar would be a no no for bossa nova. Are their any guitars that are maybe OK for both styles, like some kind of hybird classical flamenco?

Stackabones · #4 07-01-2009, 12:18 AM

It'll probably work either way, but the flamenco guitar will typically favor a brighter attack and quicker decay. Most bossa nova comping is warm and lush to my ears.

If you want to go for a traditional or authentic bossa nova sound, get the cheapest classical guitar you find and make sure you understand ginga.

http://www.jovisan.net/EducationalPDFs/Ginga.pdf.

anightintunisia · #5 07-01-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stackabones

It'll probably work either way, but the flamenco guitar will typically favor a brighter attack and quicker decay. Most bossa nova comping is warm and lush to my ears.

If you want to go for a traditional or authentic bossa nova sound, get the cheapest classical guitar you find and make sure you understand ginga.

http://www.jovisan.net/EducationalPDFs/Ginga.pdf.

That PDF is extremely helpful. Thanks!

fast eddy · #6 07-01-2009, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NSJ

I've heard a great local gypsy guitarist (Alphonso Ponticelli) play that Django style gypsy swing music on a flamenco--worked out great. The rhythm guitarist accompanying him played on traditional gypsy guitar. Play what ya like that sounds good!

What's the difference between the two? Woods, sustain, action.

You may want to check out an excellent Brazilian nylon guitar maker, if you're gonna play bossas/sambas: Giannini Guitars. I have an old Giannini nylon with cutaway and small pup and it sounds very trebly. Maybe a traditional classical may be have a more boomy sound in the bass..not an expert at this, just some impressions.

I have a Giannini - conventional as opposed to cut-away. It is trebly when compared to a Japanese classical guitar used by my old Japanese teacher. To be honest, I prefer the Giannini partly because it is Brazilian and perhaps has been designed for the Bossa Nova. Could this be?

ronjazz · #7 05-31-2010, 04:23 PM

Some flamenco guitars are warmer than others, especially rosewood back. I have found that the rosewood flamenco is really good for jazz in general, the sounds pops right out and they are light and easy to play. The Gianninis are warm and have a nice sustain, although the pickups aren't very good. Replace with B-band or transducers or, if money isn't a problem, the RMC system, which will give you whatever tone you want, with its excellent EQ. The hybrids by Yamaha and Ibanez are good for bossa, and not so wide in the neck, so easier for electric players to switch back and forth.

Sailor · #8 06-02-2010, 09:30 PM

I play a hybrid Ibanez. Not a GREAT guitar....good for classical, good for Bossa, good for CMs, etc........I like to be able to play a big portion of my repertoire on ONE instrument.

Sailor

viniciuspedrozo · #9 03-05-2011, 08:30 PM

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Look this.

Vintage Resonator Guitar Chet Atkins Del Vecchio Brazil - eBay (item 120691890721 end time Mar-06-11 05:36:02 PST)

viniciuspedrozo · #10 03-05-2011, 08:49 PM

Wacht Zé Menezes

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Flyin' Brian · #11 03-06-2011, 12:47 AM

Taylor nylon strings play more like a standard guitar than either a classical or flamenco.

Taylor Guitars | Nylon Acoustic Electric Guitar Models

newsense · #12 03-08-2011, 02:42 PM

I don't know whether you can find this one close to home (the link is for a UK review). I've been GASing for one for quite a while !

http://www.jhs.co.uk/reviews/G&B_SM_0607.pdf

Definitely "no" to the flamenco guitar for Bossa Nova. The soundboard is usually thinner than a co=nventional classical, which, as previous posters have suggested, gives much more treble repsonse. Not so smooth for bossa-style !

Stackabones · #13 03-08-2011, 03:46 PM

Necrobump!!!

newsense · #14 03-08-2011, 04:13 PM

message to self - look at the posting dates for goodness sake !

fep · #15 03-08-2011, 04:20 PM

You might consider this. You can get both flamenco and classical sounds and won't have to fight feedback when playing with a band:

YouTube Video

gremboul · #16 03-09-2011, 01:49 PM

I use both. A cedar top/rosewood classical and a spruce/cypruss flamenco guitar. The action is adjusted low on both. Both guitars sound great in the typical phrygian mode play. The are simply of a different tone and feel and it is great to switch. As a note, I use extra hard tension on the flamenco guitar and hard tension on the classical.

jameskingama · #17 04-11-2011, 08:46 AM

Classica..

ronjazz · #18 04-11-2011, 08:55 AM

The B-Band or Fishman "duet" systems with piezo and condenser mic works in any nylon-strung guitar, and adjust the EQ will give you a warmer or brighter sound. I have found that flamenco guitars amplify better than classicals because they don't have the dominant low-mids that tend to feed back first, thus are more controllable.

Soco · #19 04-12-2011, 11:26 AM

I have a Godin Multiac grand concert that works great.
I used to have a Taylor ns32ce that also got the job done.

kris · #20 04-12-2011, 03:00 PM

Ramirez with cutway.

brad4d8 · #21 04-12-2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anightintunisia

What are the differences between a flamenco and a classical guitar?

Traditionally, flamenco guitars were thinner than classicals, and has been said, generally lower action. Until recently, cypress was the favored back and sides wood, but recently flamenco negro models with rosewood are becoming more popular. Plus they were the last to eliminate the friction peg, although probably still found on some traditionalist makers guitars.
Brad