What are your thoughts on learning classical guitar?

[P90]

I really want to become better at Jazz guitar playing. In many aspects I am still a beginner. Do you think that learning classical technique and such will hinder my Jazz learning.

I've heard from professors that when classical musicians take jazz courses they seem very lost. I've even heard "edgier" professors outright mock the idea of classical theoretical instruction. On the other hand I've also heard classically trained professors refer to jazz as being a "new" phenomena since it has only been around for 80 years compared to the classical history of the guitar. Almost as if they dismiss it as being like a folk style.

I can respect the idea that learning other types of music is good, but where do you draw the line and get focused on a specific style that you want to learn?

So, what are your thoughts on learning classical guitar and jazz guitar at the same time? Right now I tend to think that classical studies would only be so helpful because jazz is such a specific art form.

[Banksia]

Anything that makes you a better guitar player will contribute to you being a better jazz guitar player. Don't take my word for it, listen to Lenny Breau!

[FatJeff]

For what it's worth, I've spent most of the last couple of years doing classical guitar only. I only just recently got into the jazz guitar scene.

My opinion is, "it depends". What are your goals as a guitarist? I do know that the classical stuff has helped me a lot in being able to use my right hand fluently - something which is important if you're going to be doing a lot of fingerstyle or chord-melody playing. The focus on technique in classical is second to none, assuming you have a competent teacher. it will definitely make you a better player.

On the other hand, classical guitar does next to nothing for improvisation. I know many good classical guitarists who would be completely lost if it came down to making up a simple melody line on the spot. And most classical guitarists are also less knowledgeable about theory than their jazz counterparts. Jazz is definitely a thinking man's game, whereas you can almost treat classical as pure rote.

What I do know is that the classical guitar world is filled with amazingly beautiful pieces. Some of my favorites:


YouTube - Agustin Barrios: La Catedral, III. Allegro solemne
YouTube - John Dowland - The frog galliard
YouTube - Augustin Barrios Mangoré: Vals Op. 3 No. 8


Personally, I would say the two areas of study are almost perpendicular, at least at my level of accomplishment. I'm not currently actively playing the classical guitar at this point, but if I were, my practice sessions would be isolated from one another. One of my old instructors told me that at some point, it all just becomes playing the guitar, but I'm certainly not there yet!

[instasian]

P90,

I first started guitar learning Classical guitar for the first 2 years of my learning Classical is pretty much all I learned. Classical Guitar really helped with my sight reading abilities.

Like Banskia said, anything that will help YOU in learing guitar is positive.

Me personally I love Classical guitar and sitll play it all the time, lately I've been putting most of my focus towards Jazz and Blues theory but I'm very grateful that I learned Classical guitar.

Hope my insight helps you a little bit!

Good luck and Practice hard man. That's what it all boils down too.

Thanks,
Jeff

[wordsmith]

I take it you are thinking about 'formal' classical guitar study. Well, give it a go and see how you like it!

I just came in to make a point about the classical guitar itself - it is a really amazing instrument. Away from classical music, it can become mean and dirty, with all manner of sonic effects possible. It can be used to do a percussion backing track. You can make it scream.
There really doesn't seem to be any limitation on the possibilities.

[P90]

Thank you everyones comments have been very insightful. I can see how classical training or anything that will make you better on guitar is a good thing. I really like listening to Pat Martino, Miles Davis, Wes Montgomery, and anyone else who has made great music. I don't see too much classical influence in their playing. I really like the fact that jazz is a thinking mans game. And improv!!! I love improv and the whole concept of improvisation.

I wasn't really planning on doing too much fingerstyle playing. Then again I never really considered it. I always play with a pick.

I noticed that a classical guitar neck is much wider than my electrics, and I was wondering if the changes in neck width would hinder aspects of my playing.

Also, I was thinking that I really enjoy getting tones out of an amp, and the idea of strictly acoustic playing doesn't interest me as much.

Thanks again to everyone for sharing your thoughts.

[c2e]

Hi all

As both a classical and jazz player I'd say study both because they help each other. My chord melody playing wouldn't be anywhere near what it is if I hadn't learnt classical guitar technique and because of learning jazz I think when I play so I know what to expect in the next bar of a classical piece making sight reading pieces a lot easier. In terms of studying the theory of the two styles, they're basically the same thing but delivered differently. Look at a Bach piece and it'll be littered with 2-5-1 movement and an aug6 is basically the same as a b5 sub. It can't be a bad thing to get more practice at making these movements seems as they make up most standards.

[FatJeff]

You would be surprised at how much variation there is in the tones possible from a classical guitar. A well made classical is really a beautiful thing - they just sing (almost by themselves) and although subtle, once you tune into it, it's amazing at the different sounds that come out of them.

Plus, you will be exposed to a whole slew of composers who created some of the most beautiful pieces you can imagine: Dowland, Milan, Purcell, Bach, Carcassi, Giuliani, Barrios, Lauro, Brouwer...the list is immense. You practically owe it to yourself to listen to this stuff!

As for the neck width, there is quite a difference, and it takes a little getting used to. The strings are farther apart in order to allow you to select individual notes with your right hand more easily - you don't do much strumming on a classical. Going back to a "regular" guitar from a classical feels a bit cramped.

Basically, classical guitar rules! And jazz guitar rules! They are both great. Depends on how much time you have. :-)

[P90]

FatJeff: I forgot to mention that I watched the videos you posted and they are very beautiful. I also checked out your youtube channel and your playing is very good.

Thanks for all your input. I'm still trying to mentally comprehend the "perpendicularness" of the two.

[JohnW400]

Unless things have changed since I was in college, Both classical and jazz musicians were required to take the same theory and ear training courses for four semesters.

After that, the classical people went on to things like form and analysis and the jazz people went on to other things like improv I etc.

Even the piano class was the same for two semesters. Then the jazz majors went to jazz piano I.

The two are not mutually exclusive nor is one better or more difficult than the other and there's no reason why you can't learn both at the same time. You just have to remember that between the two, most of the 'rules' are the same. You just have to remember the differences .

[Dookychase]

Jazz guitarist Bucky Pizzarelli believes in the study of classical guitar.

In the May issue of Just Jazz Guitar, there is an interesting interview with Lee Ritenour about this subject. Great article.

[Sailor]

I play both, daily. I now use a hybrid Ibanez nylon that is OK for both. I've let my classical technique slide a little but still play a coupe classical pieces, a couple jazz pieces, a couple blues pieces, etc.... each time I practice.

It's amazing how little you learn about the guitar and improvising etc... in classical though. I played seriously for years and have learned more playing ii-V-I's and jazz blues than I ever did before.

Playing classical is basically just reading and interpreting.

Jazz is the WHOLE experience.

[fast1]

take a look at this thread, it might help you.

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/other...classical.html

[P90]

Originally Posted by Dookychase

Jazz guitarist Bucky Pizzarelli believes in the study of classical guitar.

In the May issue of Just Jazz Guitar, there is an interesting interview with Lee Ritenour about this subject. Great article.

I need to start listening to some of his stuff. I like his 7 string guitar. I'm going to try to find that article. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Sailor

I play both, daily. I now use a hybrid Ibanez nylon that is OK for both. I've let my classical technique slide a little but still play a coupe classical pieces, a couple jazz pieces, a couple blues pieces, etc.... each time I practice.

It's amazing how little you learn about the guitar and improvising etc... in classical though. I played seriously for years and have learned more playing ii-V-I's and jazz blues than I ever did before.

Playing classical is basically just reading and interpreting.

Jazz is the WHOLE experience.

That's the way I feel about it.

I would rather play some blues pieces and jazz pieces. Maybe I need to look harder for classical pieces though.

I was thinking that the classical guitar is definately useful for certain situations and it might be good to look into a hybrid type.

Originally Posted by fast1

take a look at this thread, it might help you.

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/other...classical.html

I just read whole thread and it was good read thank you.

[mr. beaumont]

this is a tough one for me to answer...there's nothing bad about learning classical--only good things can happen to you tecnique wise...but is that what you want? if you really want to learn jazz, you gotta play jazz....all the technique in the world won't get you thru the changes of giant steps...

if your overall goal is to be a well rounded player, classical is great. if you want to cut heads, hook up with some jazz cats who are better than you and let them kick your ass around for a few years. you'll learn, for sure.

[TheViking]

As far as playing the guitar goes you could do a lot worse than learning classical guitar. Classical musicians tend to have really good chops. It will help your reading and picking enormously. I'm all for jazz players learning classical.

As for classical theory, I would stick to jazz theory because it is more comprehensive. Classical theory only uses the scales that were around in its day whereas jazz theory uses all the latest sounding scales as well as the old ones.

[notchet]

I played classical guitar at college in the 1970's. The best piece of advice my prof gave me was to take the study #2 from Carcassi 25 and change your right hand fingerings ie play as written then P-I-M-A-M-I, then P-A-M-A-M-I, then P-I-M-I-A-I-M-I, then P-A-M-I tremolo. You won't beleve how the study sounds different and yet the same. Of course, when you change the right hand fingering you can drop the repeated notes at the end of each phrase. Relax after each stroke and you can never practice too slow, that is what practice is for.

Also sight read 4X more than you think you can.

Give it a try. Listen to some Earl Klugh too !!