To pick, or not to pick?

[Drumbler]

I settled down with hybrid picking which I use mainly for chord melody.

Single lines I just pick.

No way is perfect.

[Meggy]

Originally Posted by markf

Jack Semple uses his own technique; Not sure if anyone else plays as he does.

I think he has some instruction dvd's.

I think he first played flamenco, and then moved to electric.

I do not know specifically what he does;

He has very long nails;

For single note fast riffs, I have seen him brace his picking hand firstfinger and use it like a plastic pick, to hit the strings.

and it works well for him. very fast, very clean, very tasty, but he is very talented too.

I think Lorne Lofsky does that as well, I have only seen him once on tv.

Well, obviously I'm not quite in the same league ahm.. But I do this as well i.e. place thumb against index finger, and use index finger nail with up and down strokes in a pick-like manner. I'm not the world's fastest, but I've come to the conclusion that it's not really my picking hand that is the limiting factor - probably more to do with the left hand, and also left-right coordination. Plus I am getting better.

I think it helps to have fairly straight and strong nails (I'm lucky in this respect) plus you have to pay attention to keeping them smooth and at the right length/shape also. I get what I think is a good clean attack to the note, plus no problems with pick clicking noise. You can switch to full fingerstyle and back to "pick-style" very easily.

[jjvai711]

I would say using a thumbpick gives you a pretty rounded technique if you work at it enough. I use a Fred Kelly Bumblebee XH and can play single note lines much faster than i ever did in 5 years of flat picking, after only 1 year using a thumbpick.

For single note lines i go - Thumb 1stfinger Thumb 2ndfinger - as an alternate to ...alternate picking.I learned that from watching some Lorne Lofsky and mainly Tommy Emmanuel. I think it took about 4 months to feel comfortable with it, but it does mean that making the transition between CM and runs its pretty smooth. Plus i can also strum chords etc when needed.

[Aristotle]

When it comes to fingerstyle fast lines...no-one compares to Paco de Lucia...he matches speeds with Al Di freaking Meola playing entirely with his fingers

IMO, it's close, but he doesn't quite keep up with the two pick guys when I see them play that Passion, Grace and Fire stuff. Also, Paco is the exception, not the rule.

----

IMO, trying to match pick speed and flexibility of phrasing with fingerstyle is a daunting task. After decades, my fingers can't catch up to what I can do with pick effortlessly. This especially applies to sweeping down arpeggios in continuous phrases, and to getting the same control over accenting and individualized dynamics over each note in a line. And I think the dynamic control issue is big one, because articulation is the difference between a rote "scale" and a strong melodic statement.

You have to make a decision. Either, you are going to use both, and go back and forth; or you going to go the route of Scotty Anderson or Tommie Emanuel or Richard Smith. I suggest that whichever of these two main paths you take, you will always hear someone who plays the other way and who plays things you can't play.

[mmomo]

Originally Posted by Goofsus4

Another option is to get good at string muting with your fretting hand. You may have to abandon certain voicings, but many common voicings can be muted so that you can strum them with a pick. Of course, that means every chord will be strummed as opposed to plucked, which gives a different sound.

Dear Goofsus4,
you've addressed my current worst problem, i.e. strumming two/three note chords, in order to get a completely different sound from finger picking/hybrid approach. As you say, this requires to mastering the muting of the four/three strings not involved in the chord. I completely agree with you that in this case the muting has to be provided by the fretting hand, leaving the right hand free to strum the chord. I think to have understood how to get the proper muting while strumming Octaves, ala Wes Montgomery, mainly analyzing some Lee Ritenour's videos.
However at the moment I do not have an efficient muting technique for two note chords and/or triads.
Have you some suggestions?
Thanks
Ciao
Massimo (Rome, Italy)

[Goofsus4]

Originally Posted by mmomo

Dear Goofsus4,
you've addressed my current worst problem, i.e. strumming two/three note chords, in order to get a completely different sound from finger picking/hybrid approach. As you say, this requires to mastering the muting of the four/three strings not involved in the chord. I completely agree with you that in this case the muting has to be provided by the fretting hand, leaving the right hand free to strum the chord. I think to have understood how to get the proper muting while strumming Octaves, ala Wes Montgomery, mainly analyzing some Lee Ritenour's videos.
However at the moment I do not have an efficient muting technique for two note chords and/or triads.
Have you some suggestions?
Thanks
Ciao
Massimo (Rome, Italy)

Have you tried just using your index finger to lightly barre above whatever notes you want to cleanly fret? In this case, the barre simply acts as a mute on any notes not fretted below.

You can also palm mute with your strumming hand if you aren't strumming too vigorously. You can effect a gentle strum by moving just your wrist and using the inside of your palm to damp unwanted strings.

You can use both methods together to quickly stop any unwanted ringing from strings that are casually touched when changing positions.

I think that muting technique is probably something that is very specific to each player. You just have to see what works for you best.

[Reg]

I play both styles... most of the time I hold pick between index and middle finger about a quarter inch from tips when playing bass lines and chords and use the pick when I want.. no problems, have control of dynamics and tone. Usually more with latin tunes or when I'm covering changes etc. or if I don't need to worry about cutting through. In full ensembles the pick cuts through and doesn't fill so much space. Also busy lick or montuno style comping works better for me with pick., except when playing solo, then I use both and any other technique I can, your sound can become pretty boring. Then there are solo or duo gigs where I use classic style comping, never touch the pick... sometimes a little boring... not really jazz to me... but it's cool and has it's places. If you want to play jazz in a classical style... play it... Paco... Yea... I wish there were more like him, even if he isn't a jazz player... Best Reg

[Fritzjazz]

Has anyone tried "Lute Picking" to play fast melodic passages while playing chord melody finger style?

Lute picking involves picking fast melodic passages with only the thumb (possitioned slightly forward) and index finger (possitioned slightly behind)?

The thumb pushes down and through the string on a slight angle and the index finger pulls upward back toward the palm. You can quickly alternate thumb and index, imitating the down-up motion of a pick.

This method can approach the speed of a pick (with some practice) and, since your hand is not encumbered with a pick, you are at ready to go back into regular finger style.

[Goofsus4]

Originally Posted by Fritzjazz

Has anyone tried "Lute Picking" to play fast melodic passages while playing chord melody finger style?

Lute picking involves picking fast melodic passages with only the thumb (possitioned slightly forward) and index finger (possitioned slightly behind)?

The thumb pushes down and through the string on a slight angle and the index finger pulls upward back toward the palm. You can quickly alternate thumb and index, imitating the down-up motion of a pick.

This method can approach the speed of a pick (with some practice) and, since your hand is not encumbered with a pick, you are at ready to go back into regular finger style.

Yes, I have been using this method recently (but I use my middle finger, not forefinger) and it definitely can improve speed. I have been playing mostly fingerstyle for quite a while now and was just using my thumb for single note lines. I like the idea of going completely pickless, but speed is hard to obtain with only downstrokes of the thumb. I've tried upstrokes with the thumb a la Wes, but that's just not cutting it for me. I cannot have long nails for sports reasons and I don't like thumbpicks and I don't want to go with artificial nails (too much hassle). I've used this lute picking technique for classical stuff before and recently began to try it to improve my speed for single note runs. I still have not mastered it yet, the main problem being not coordinating my thumb and middle finger (to avoid accidental string muting). It has promise though because I've seen a noticeable increase in speed - enough that I can see that if I get it down well I will have no need for a pick.

[Gramps]

Earl Klugh is an example of finger picking jazz.