Little Wing jazz Cord melody arrangement?

[mikej327]

Does anyone know of a jazz version of little wing played with chord melodies?

[derek]

Never seen it done.

[mr. beaumont]

the problem with little wing is the melody in spots (butterflies and zebras and moonbeams...that's all she ever thinks about...)is sort of half sung, half spoken. it's not very strong, and it sits low against the harmony, which could make for some difficulties.

of course, not saying it can't be done...

[fep]

Maybe this will help, lots of ideas here, though not jazz there are definately a few jazz chords, he does keep it harmonically true to the orginal...

YouTube Video

[elrond]

I saw a guy play it classical/spanish style one night outside a restaurant very nice it worked well for this guy took some liberties with it. was 7 years ago so it may have only been the intro? I only know it was beautiful! and that I was awestruck I cant really comment on the techincal aspects of it as I didnt have as much knowledge of the guitar as I do now.

[derek]

Carl is just a monster. Great job, but definitely not jazz. Dunno if it matters or not. If you can play like that, people probably won't care what you call it.

[Sailor]

Pretty impressive...better than Jimi or not????

[derek]

Originally Posted by Sailor

Pretty impressive...better than Jimi or not????

Not even close. Jimi was a great player, icon, but he never had Carl's chops. Not a fair comparison though imo. Jimi emerged at a time when stuff like this hadn't been heard before. Right place, right time. Wonderful songwriter, wonderful player, mediocre singer. Carl doesn't sing (that I know of), and certainly hasn't written anything memorable like the above.

However, he has been on tons more recordings than Jimi, as a session player, and has written and recorded quite a bit of educational material. If Jimi had not wasted his life, who knows where he would be now?

[Sailor]

Good points Derek!

Jimi was the best at what he did....but I've heard that he only used a few pentatonic riffs and the rest was showmanship, great voice, presence, etc......

I hadn't heard Carl before but he has some mad licks...great player.

[mr. beaumont]

well, i think the thing about jimi is that everyone talks about his lead playing, but where he's really amazing is in his rhythm playing...of course, inspired by curtis mayfield...

jimi was the toal package--the image, the sound, the presence. go back and listen to "machine gun"-- sure it's not so wild compared to what cats are doing now, but NOBODY was making guitars sound like that in 1970.

[fep]

Originally Posted by derek

Carl doesn't sing (that I know of), and certainly hasn't written anything memorable like the above.

Hey Derek,

Carl does write and sing.

He has 11 solo albums, one of those "Solo Improvisations" has a lot of covers including jazz standars. I believe on the other 10 he wrote pretty much all the material. There are several vocal songs on each of his CDs (except Solo Improvisations which is the closest to jazz of all his CDs)

Here's a song he wrote in which he sings. I've seen it live, it is amazing seeing him play that line which is all over the neck while he's singing. He can go from the 2nd fret to the 14th in a flash without looking while singing at the same time.

YouTube Video

[jezzmuz1k]

First time I've heard of and seen Carl. Very tasty hybrid picking. You should check Monte Montgomery's Little Wing and Sara Smile-both on YouTube. Not a jazzer but a terrific player.

[derek]

Originally Posted by fep

Hey Derek,

Carl does write and sing.

He has 11 solo albums, one of those "Solo Improvisations" has a lot of covers including jazz standars. I believe on the other 10 he wrote pretty much all the material. There are several vocal songs on each of his CDs (except Solo Improvisations which is the closest to jazz of all his CDs)

Here's a song he wrote in which he sings. I've seen it live, it is amazing seeing him play that line which is all over the neck while he's singing. He can go from the 2nd fret to the 14th in a flash without looking while singing at the same time.

fep, thanks for the heads up. I didn't know he sang. I am aware of many of his recordings where he is the leader. I have been revisiting his instructional book lately, particularly for my rock/pop playing. I get so bored with the half step whole step pentatonic and major scale playing in that setting. Is a great way to add some spice to those tired pitch collections.

[JimBobWay]

...here is a link to Tuck Andress' transcription site, where he has a teaser of his own version, a nice medley with "Castles Made of Sand" he played on his Reckless Precision disc.
Tuck Andress guitar tabs, transcriptions, tablature.

A quick Scroogle search will net you dozens of other (mostly very literal) transcriptions and/or tabs that can be used to flesh out your own version.
Hope this helps!

[markf]

Originally Posted by Sailor

Good points Derek!

Jimi was the best at what he did....but I've heard that he only used a few pentatonic riffs and the rest was showmanship, great voice, presence, etc......

I hadn't heard Carl before but he has some mad licks...great player.

WOW!

Sorry, I know Music is personal but,


this has to be the most ridiculous thing I have heard in quite a while. Any subject, any forum.

What you said above is absurd.

By the way, since when is music defined by the number of scales used? absurd.

And to ask "who played little wing better, Jimi or ........ and to have someone else suggest that so and so played little wing better,

arghhhh! oh yeah forgot, music is chops, and chops are music. all else is nothing.

sorry I came here today.

[derek]

Originally Posted by markf

WOW!

Sorry, I know Music is personal but,


this has to be the most ridiculous thing I have heard in quite a while. Any subject, any forum.

What you said above is absurd.

By the way, since when is music defined by the number of scales used? absurd.

And to ask "who played little wing better, Jimi or ........ and to have someone else suggest that so and so played little wing better,

arghhhh! oh yeah forgot, music is chops, and chops are music. all else is nothing.

sorry I came here today.

So I am assuming Jimi is an idol of yours? Can you list the absurdities and your counterpoints, or just insult and go? I didn't read where anyone here dissed Jimi at all. Nobody made the point that chops are king. What has you so upset?

[Sailor]

Yeah Derek, I agree...that last post is totally incoherent!!

The poster must not have read or comprehended what we were talking about at all.

AND...for the most ridiculous thing ever written on any forum ever??? Man, he needs to spend some time on-line!!LOL

Sailor

[markf]

Can you list the absurdities and your counterpoints,

1.

Not even close. Jimi was a great player, icon, but he never had Carl's chops

implication, (to me) Carl's better cause he has better chops. To me, that is ridiculous.

.

but I've heard that he only used a few pentatonic riffs and the rest was showmanship,

Only used a few pentatonic riffs

better go listen to hendrix a little bit more. Try to transcribe some of it. find out if there are any scales at all in some of it.

And after that, listen to John Coltrane on "love supreme" and figure out if he uses pentatonic scales much. they are by definition, "simple"

oh yeah, by the way, Gil Evans

(you might recognize the name---"Kind of Blue" ) disagrees with you both.

sorry if I offended you, but I really found this thread silly.

[timscarey]

I feel like SRV did a pretty good job of doing a instrumental little wing. I also feel like, adding 7ths to the chords would take away from the character of the song. again, not saying it cant be done, but I think it would be really hard to make little wing..... "Jazz"

and yeah, Markf... chill out dude, no one is saying anything negative about Jimi Hendrix. I'm sure we all love Jimi

[markf]

1. sorry for the abruptness of language in my posts on this, not needed at this site.

2. " Evans worked in the free jazz and jazz-rock idioms, gaining a new generation of admirers. Evans had a particular interest in the work of rock guitarist Jimi Hendrix. Hendrix's 1970 death made impossible a scheduled meeting with Evans to discuss having Hendrix front a big band led by Evans. In 1974, he released an album of his arrangements of music by Hendrix.

Gil Evans said whenever he got stuck for an idea, he went to Hendrix.

Anyway, I strongly disagree with the idea that anyone could play little wing or any hendrix tune as well as hendrix

[jonasfixe]

I think it is always nonsense to compare musicians or music. There is clearly a heritage from Jimi to Carl, and Carl is one of the best I have seen. The sound is clearly influenced by Jimi, though he has some academic skills.

I am not confortable with classifications like "Definitely not jazz"... Definitely!

[fep]

Isn't it cool the way Carl hits artificial harmonics... Like the chord strum at 0:12 and 0:16 and the arp at 1:05 and 1:35 to 1:40 wow!. It looks like he very guickly shifts the pick to his middle finger and thumb, touches the harmonic with his index finger and picks/strums with the pick.

I've never noticed anyone doing that before

[Ron Stern]

I had to turn the video off after less than a minute. I really, really dislike this kind of stuff as music. As instruction and demonstration, it's OK.

Techniques strung together. How egotistical. The feeling of the composition shines through because of the strength of the composition, not because of the playing, indeed, in spite of the playing. It's torture.

To me it indicates fear on behalf of the artist that what he has to express will be rejected so he has to allow no time for the rejection by leaving the smallest possible gaps between notes. Masking emotion with technique. IOW it's cowardice.

[FatJeff]

I didn't like it either. To break the rhythmic flow of the piece just to show off a bunch of technique doesn't do it for me. Clearly, the guy has chops - but who cares? George Benson has chops too, but I can't listen to his music because I can't stand his phrasing (or lack thereof). Oscar Peterson had chops, but he scatted nasally over the top of all his work and made it unlistenable. Yngwie Malsteem has chops, but his music is basically a big ejaculation of sweep picking - it sucks.

Like you said - as an instructional video, this was fine. As music, it is horrible.

[derek]

Originally Posted by markf

1.


implication, (to me) Carl's better cause he has better chops. To me, that is ridiculous.



better go listen to hendrix a little bit more. Try to transcribe some of it. find out if there are any scales at all in some of it.

And after that, listen to John Coltrane on "love supreme" and figure out if he uses pentatonic scales much. they are by definition, "simple"

oh yeah, by the way, Gil Evans

(you might recognize the name---"Kind of Blue" ) disagrees with you both.

sorry if I offended you, but I really found this thread silly.

You didn't offend me, but you came off as a fan boi with that post, and I wondered what set you off. Imo he is a better player, you don't agree, fine. Is the nature of forums such as this and differing opinions.

I have listened to Jimi for 30 years. As I said upstream, icon. However, he pissed his life away at an early age, just as he was really hitting his stride. Who knows what he would have become if he were still around? Carl has been a studio guy for many years, with lots of recordings, both as a sideman and leader to his credit. Not a fair comparison, as I mentioned above.

Gil Evans has just as much right as anyone here to have an opinion. However, he didn't disagree with us, as he was not asked to compare Carl and Jimi.

[markf]

Originally Posted by FatJeff

I didn't like it either. To break the rhythmic flow of the piece just to show off a bunch of technique doesn't do it for me. Clearly, the guy has chops - but who cares? George Benson has chops too, but I can't listen to his music because I can't stand his phrasing (or lack thereof). Oscar Peterson had chops, but he scatted nasally over the top of all his work and made it unlistenable. Yngwie Malsteem has chops, but his music is basically a big ejaculation of sweep picking - it sucks.

Like you said - as an instructional video, this was fine. As music, it is horrible.

There is quite a bit of George Benson discussion here, "how does he do that" yeah, amazing technique. but to me, when he is blazing away, it is completely boring. and I can't hear any phrasing at all.

Likewise Oscar. brilliant technique, but no improvisation. you could probably listen to him play a thousand tunes, and each one, after the first time through, would be indistinguishable from the last.

the biggest problem for jazz these days is mistaking technique for music.

worshiping technique over expression/emotion/ and things that most people can relate to. Even in ballads, many jazz players feel like they just have to blaze away.

there's just no emotional content, nothing anyone can grab onto. just
"wow look how he did ....... amazing, I set my metronome to..... and play 1/6th notes"

All if which is evidenced by the tiny amount of jazz albums that are sold, the lack of appeal of jazz to the vast majority of people, it's transition from being extremely popular, (nineteen thirties) to being pretty much irrelevant. and the lack of interest from the most important group, young people.

anyway, thanks guys, for the discussion.

[derek]

Originally Posted by markf

There is quite a bit of George Benson discussion here, "how does he do that" yeah, amazing technique. but to me, when he is blazing away, it is completely boring. and I can't hear any phrasing at all.

Likewise Oscar. brilliant technique, but no improvisation. you could probably listen to him play a thousand tunes, and each one, after the first time through, would be indistinguishable from the last.

the biggest problem for jazz these days is mistaking technique for music.

worshiping technique over expression/emotion/ and things that most people can relate to. Even in ballads, many jazz players feel like they just have to blaze away.

there's just no emotional content, nothing anyone can grab onto. just
"wow look how he did ....... amazing, I set my metronome to..... and play 1/6th notes"

All if which is evidenced by the tiny amount of jazz albums that are sold, the lack of appeal of jazz to the vast majority of people, it's transition from being extremely popular, (nineteen thirties) to being pretty much irrelevant. and the lack of interest from the most important group, young people.

anyway, thanks guys, for the discussion.

You bring up a good point Mark. I wonder just how popular jazz has ever been? The tunes we tend to consider part of the rep, were pop songs of their day, not jazz. Big bands were popular, as everyone would go to the VFW Hall (or where ever) for the weekly dances.

However, when these tunes became improvised music, they quit becoming danceable, and lost the larger audience. I am not a good enough jazz historian, but I would guess jazz really never had a large audience, just like any improvised music. Maybe the exception would be what we call today "jam bands", Dead, Phish, WSP, etc.

Benson gets talked about here, because he probably has sold more records than any other "jazz" artist. However, he did so with his pop stuff, not the jazz stuff he sold early on. Benson is an amazing player, and singer.

As far as popularity with today's kids, there has been an explosion of university level jazz programs, so clearly there is a demand. However, you would think these graduates would be buyers of jazz music and live music attendance goers. The data does not support that currently, sales stay flat at 3%, which includes smooth jazz.

With regard to emotional content, I guess that is subjective. I have seen Pat Martino many times live, and he seems to be a constant stream of 8th notes, but he also has a tremendous amount of emotion in his playing.

[fep]

There is incredible music written for religious services by this guy named Bach. Yet it doesn't get played anymore.

In Bach's day he'd write a weekly four part choral for his Lutheran church, beautiful counterpoint. And I've been told the congregation could sight-read their parts.

In those days servants could get jobs based on their vocal abilities, the family didn't have a soprano, then you could bet that the servant they had hired could also sing soprano.

From what I've heard and read; before the 20th century the general European population was musically literate.

Now we have gameboy, the internet, tv etc. Music is a much lower priority and the population is largely musically illiterate (including a lot of the "musicians").

That is my hypothesis as to why jazz music continues to lose popularity and why classical music is also unpopular.

[Sailor]

Funny that we talked about this extensively in some GRAD classes I just took this fall. Classical and Jazz music is losing popularity and Classical and Jazz programs are slowly being eliminated from schools and concert ticket sales are at an almost all time low.

However, there is, and probably always will be, a core group of people that study and play Bach and Jazz.

Music making used to be more important prior to the mass availability of recorded music and music "games". People made music because they had to and community music making was an important social function.

There is no easy answer to the decline of "serious" musicians, but as long as there are people like everyone on this forum, there will always be a continuance of historic music being played.

I think the real danger is the decline in "serious" composition...even pop music is at an all time low. When was the last pop band equal to the Beatles or Pink Floyd...where is the next Miles...or even John Cage??

[markf]

way off topic, but there is music called "sonatas and partitas for solo violin", by J.S. Bach, 6 pieces of music, which many violin players have played, and which I worked through a bit of. ( I am a horrible reader)

It is pretty much indistinguishable from bebop.

Anyway, I am glad I participated in this discussion, since I got out my Hendrix albums, and I am happy about that.