Little Wing jazz Cord melody arrangement? - Page 2

JohnW400 · #31 01-03-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markf

way off topic, but there is music called "sonatas and partitas for solo violin", by J.S. Bach, 6 pieces of music, which many violin players have played, and which I worked through a bit of. ( I am a horrible reader)

It is pretty much indistinguishable from bebop.

Anyway, I am glad I participated in this discussion, since I got out my Hendrix albums, and I am happy about that.

You could spend quite a few years with the Bach book. I think the one in B minor and the one in D minor are the 'easiest' of the lot (if you had to sort them on that level. )

I have both violin and guitar versions on CD. I've found them indispenable in helping to learn some of the pieces. Especially the very first piece which looks like it should be fast as hell but is actually quite slow. Looks can be deceiving.

I think some of them are easier played with the fingers rather than a pick. The second 'tune ' in the first sonata is usually done by classical cats in A minor. Much easier there .

The last one in E , the first one is a killer for cross picking. Probably better played fingerstyle although that ways no picnic either. pretty tough too.

Yea, you could say I've spent some time in that book

(Although I think it's easier than the Pagannini Caprices)_

BTW, I still can only play 2 little tunes in the Bminor one and only the minuet in E well enough to say that I can play them. All the others are still works in progress and will probably remain that way until the day I stop playing.

woyvel · #32 01-03-2010, 07:08 PM

The "Little Wing" that turned my head around is on Sting's "Nothing Like The Sun" with the Gil Evans orchestra and the late Hiram Bullock on guitar. That's my hand's down favorite. The arrangement is more jazz-influenced than any other "Little Wing" I've heard, and Bullock soars.

derek · #33 01-03-2010, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woyvel

The "Little Wing" that turned my head around is on Sting's "Nothing Like The Sun" with the Gil Evans orchestra and the late Hiram Bullock on guitar. That's my hand's down favorite. The arrangement is more jazz-influenced than any other "Little Wing" I've heard, and Bullock soars.

I had forgotten about that version. I really like it also. In fact, one of my favorite treatments of Round Midnight is done by Sting on Andy Summer's Green Chimney album, which is all Monk tunes.

Here it is if interested. Oh yeah, WAY off topic.

YouTube Video

markf · #34 01-04-2010, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woyvel

The "Little Wing" that turned my head around is on Sting's "Nothing Like The Sun" with the Gil Evans orchestra and the late Hiram Bullock on guitar. That's my hand's down favorite. The arrangement is more jazz-influenced than any other "Little Wing" I've heard, and Bullock soars.

I agree completely, Hiram Bullock plays a brilliant solo, and it is by far my favourite cover of a hendrix tune.

There is a fusion guitarist name of nguyen le who did a whole album tribute to Hendrix "Purple" it's called, which is interesting.

Pequod · #35 01-05-2010, 06:58 PM

Hallo fellow jazzers - does anyone have head or lead sheet for Oscar Peterson's tune Bluesology? Mucho Gracias - Pequod

Drumbler · #36 01-05-2010, 08:01 PM

That Carl Verhayen video was terrific.

timscarey · #37 01-07-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markf

way off topic, but there is music called "sonatas and partitas for solo violin", by J.S. Bach, 6 pieces of music, which many violin players have played, and which I worked through a bit of. ( I am a horrible reader)

It is pretty much indistinguishable from bebop.
.

Indistinguishable from Be-bop?

Well, other than it doesn't swing, uses far less chormaticism, doesn't include a rhythm section, has no changes, is written for solo violin, and includes no improvisation at all. I can see that.

Sailor · #38 01-07-2010, 03:24 PM

Ha ha Timscarey!! I get your point but I hope it's a little facetious!!

Bach was the beginning and the end of music to a lot of us and many jazz greats play Bach with an appropriate AWE!!

His use of chromaticism and improvisation was legendary, even before 1750!!

fep · #39 01-07-2010, 03:39 PM

I agree with Tim and I don't think he's being facetious.

Bach was a genius and his music is amazing, perhaps I prefer it to bebop or even jazz for that matter.

But saying it's indistinguishable from bebop. That's just silly.

Play me a samples of each, pretty dang sure I'll be able to tell the difference

FatJeff · #40 01-07-2010, 04:12 PM

Hal Galper, in his book "Forward Motion," talks about the use of tied upbeats in Bach's music. This is one of the essential elements of bop rhythm. Maybe that's what the poster was referring to.

Sailor · #41 01-07-2010, 05:38 PM

OK...Bach is different from Bebop. BUT I still like the original,(markf),comment.

I think some Bach pieces could be "swung" and you would have a hard time distinguishing!

Neither here nor there though...it seems like all jazzers realize the significance of Bach.

Sailor

Sailor · #42 01-07-2010, 05:43 PM

Ok there are WAY too many Jazz Bach pieces to link to....but fun!!

YouTube - Bach sarabande jazz guitar played by Renato Rozic

Sailor

timscarey · #43 01-07-2010, 06:01 PM

i'll admit, I was being a bit cheeky : )

markf · #44 01-08-2010, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Well, other than it doesn't swing,

I disagree with this, it has a beautiful flowing, ("singing" they call it) feel, and easily converts to a jazz feel, which has been done often.

Quote:

doesn't include a rhythm section

, ? so, any music without a rhythm section is not jazz/bob? ha ha ha

Quote:

has no changes,

better go listen again. It has all the changes that are used in most bebop tunes. probably more. they aren't written down, so you have to be able to hear them.

Quote:

is written for solo violin

,

which means what in relation to my post?

Quote:

and includes no improvisation at all

.

Bach, and most classical musicians such as Mozart were famous and honoured for their improvising skills. probably a lot of the music I mentioned was written in that way.

Try reading some of the music I mentioned. Maybe you'll hear what I hear in it. some of the phrasing, phrase lengths, direction of the notes, interval jumps, use of suspended notes. it's all there.

JohnW400 · #45 01-08-2010, 10:20 AM

I don't know about anybody else but back in college we had to anylize Bach stuff and that included putting those lovely Roman numerals under the measure to show the harmony.

Sounds like changes to me.

timscarey · #46 01-08-2010, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markf

Bach, and most classical musicians such as Mozart were famous and honoured for their improvising skills. probably a lot of the music I mentioned was written in that way.

Try reading some of the music I mentioned. Maybe you'll hear what I hear in it. some of the phrasing, phrase lengths, direction of the notes, interval jumps, use of suspended notes. it's all there.

I'll give ya the notes, cause there are only 12 of them. However, you will not find (for example) a series of decending 2-5's over the course of 4 bars, or really any instance of 7th chord harmony moving as fast as in be-bop. That came after Bach.

IT DOESN'T SWING. you can swig it, but you will not be playing in the common practice period style.

All western music has harmony, but not "changes" as we know them to be. I'm refering to a short repeated form consisting of moving 7th chords that is to be soloed over, you will not find this in ANY music prior to jazz, (figured bass doesn't count, as it is not a reapeated form)

Of course Bach and Mozart and every other composer in history could improvize, and at an amazingly high level (or so i've read, and have every reason to beleive) but their music was not written to be improvised over (with the exception of the cadenza), and if you where to write out the roman numerals, covert them to chord symbolds, and take a solo, you would find that the harmonic motion would not resemble be-bop in anything other than the basic V-I relationship. I grew up on Bach and still play it and anylize it with my students all the time.

I was joking in my first post on this topic, but I like the direction this is going. prove me wrong please.

JohnW400 · #47 01-08-2010, 01:30 PM

Wasn't part of George Harrisons defense of "My Sweet Lord" not really being He's So Fine was because it was based on a Bach piece? I don't know which piece though.

Are there examples of ii-V's moving around? Don't know. Let's ask RandallJazz. I think he's up on that stuff.

Yo Randall......

Sailor · #48 01-08-2010, 06:56 PM

Love the direction this is going...great minds think alike...or some such shit!

Anyway, this all started as a comment on Little Wing?? Maybe we should have a Bach thread?? LOL

Bach did use Dom 7ths, BTW:ex., Prelude 1 Well Tempered Clavier.

Sailor

timscarey · #49 01-08-2010, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor

Bach did use Dom 7ths, BTW:ex., Prelude 1 Well Tempered Clavier.

Totally, he probably used them in almost every peice he ever wrote. I'm comparing chord progressions, not individual chords. you will absolutley find 2-5-1 in Bachs music, you're not likley to find the changes to "Lady Bird" however. Most be-bop/jazz uses nothing but 7th type chords and generally has short, repeated forms, 2 very huge differences from the music of Bach.

markf · #50 01-09-2010, 09:07 AM

can decide for yourself if any of this music sounds like lines by charlie parker.

it's free at this link.

Partita No. 1 Original version - Violin - Sheet music - Cantorion, Sheet music & concert listings for free

timscarey · #51 01-10-2010, 08:28 PM

YouTube - Milstein plays Bach Partita no. 1 - 1. Allemande

JohnW400 · #52 01-11-2010, 08:14 AM

With all this Bach talk I put a little time in on the Bmi and Gmi ones , checking out both the original and the guitar versions.

I would only like to point out that there are quite a few 7b9 chrds there and some movement that *could be* akin to some ii mi7b5 to V7b9 .

Sailor · #53 01-11-2010, 02:24 PM

Go John Woo!

Sailor

timscarey · #54 01-11-2010, 05:00 PM

I'm not sure this is quite a discussion anymore, I never argued that bach didn't use dominant chords. Infact, I'm quite sure bach used all chord types, including altered dominants, half dim, and even some chords that jazzers don't use. I was seeking a discussion on the VAST differences between music of bach's time and of be-bop. notes are a very small part of music it's the overall harmonic, rhythmic, and melodic language that I am speaking of.

For example, in the first 8 bars of the music posted ealier, there is only one accidental... an A#, which is only used for the F#dominant chords, the rest is completely diatonic to the key of Bmin

In fact, further inspection will show that the only time a note outside of the key of B-minor is used at all is for the B7 in measure 6 and the C#7 in measures 10-11. The rhythms, mood, and intention of the music has even less in common with be-bop than the harmony.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #55 01-11-2010, 05:15 PM

Bach frowned on drum solos, too.

JohnW400 · #56 01-11-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timscarey

I'm not sure this is quite a discussion anymore, I never argued that bach didn't use dominant chords. Infact, I'm quite sure bach used all chord types, including altered dominants, half dim, and even some chords that jazzers don't use. I was seeking a discussion on the VAST differences between music of bach's time and of be-bop. notes are a very small part of music it's the overall harmonic, rhythmic, and melodic language that I am speaking of.

For example, in the first 8 bars of the music posted ealier, there is only one accidental... an A#, which is only used for the F#dominant chords, the rest is completely diatonic to the key of Bmin

In fact, further inspection will show that the only time a note outside of the key of B-minor is used at all is for the B7 in measure 6 and the C#7 in measures 10-11. The rhythms, mood, and intention of the music has even less in common with be-bop than the harmony.

Tim, I think we're all just having fun with it. I'm pretty sure that everybody knows they aren't the exactly the same. Just kinda

One last thing, If you look at the Courante in Bminor of the vioin solos, the last bunch of measures, He kind of back cycles B7b9 to E9 etc. I was playing it tonight and when i saw that I said " oh the B section to Scrapple"

BDLH welcome back.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #57 01-11-2010, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnW400

BDLH welcome back.

And it's good to be back. I went walking in a forest that was supposed to have a few ebony trees, but I wouldn't have known one without frets on it. That was my closest guitar moment on holiday.

timscarey · #58 01-11-2010, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnW400

Tim, I think we're all just having fun with it. I'm pretty sure that everybody knows they aren't the exactly the same. Just kinda

One last thing, If you look at the Courante in Bminor of the vioin solos, the last bunch of measures, He kind of back cycles B7b9 to E9 etc. I was playing it tonight and when i saw that I said " oh the B section to Scrapple"

BDLH welcome back.

John, you are like yoda, so wise. Thank you.

markf · #59 01-12-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Bach frowned on drum solos, too.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #60 01-12-2010, 03:50 PM

I was hoping someone else would tell the joke:

A young missionary is on his first posting, in the African bush. He arrives at a small camp in the evening, lit by a fire, and he hears drumming in the distance. He asks his African assitent what the drumming means. "Drum good, but when drum stop, bad thing happen." He mulls this over for hours as he lies on his cot in the sweltering heat. All of the sudden the drumming stops! He staggers out of his tent and finds the assistent sitting by the fire and he begs: "the drums have stopped, now what happens?!"
.
.
.
"Bass solo."