Fingerstyle v. Chord Melody

[Kessel1]

It seemed that fingerstuyle and chord melody are being used simultaneously. Outside of bossa novas, a couple of tunes and comping, I feel like a novice with fingerstyle (e.g., I should be able to use Travis picking and can't). I'm somewhat pickbound. On the other hand, chord melody (at least as it's consistent with my ability) comes naturally. Which are we discussing?

[Gabriel]

I believe that you you're asking is "is this branch of the forum about both fingerstyle and chord-melody?"

To answer: If you play chord melody with your fingers, then yes.

ALSO, if you want to work on your fingerstyle, I would recommend learning a few of Joe Pass' arrangements from his solo records. Or even to take a step back and immerse yourself in country. Guy Van Duser is a good source for this kind of stuff, having invented a technique of playing stride piano tunes on guitar, and if you're in the Boston area, I strongly advise you to check him out.

[sigung86]

I sort of have just the opposite problem... I've been known to launch picks 20 feet into the air. I feel much more comfortable going after the strings with my faingers. As a matter of fact, I am currently working on a design for a nylon string archtop, amplified, that I intend to build. I'm kind of "loosely" basing it on Bennedetto's design that is pictured in the back of his book.

[November]

For jazz I stopped using a pick. If you read my introduction you'll see I don't know much jazz but...

When I do chord inversions/scale exercises/warmups, I never use a pick. I only use a pick if dictated by appropriate tone.

So how do I do it? Wes montgomery/joe pass style. I pick single notes with my thumb edge (near corner of nail. The fleshy part. Not the part that wes uses but it works for me like a pick. You can up and downstroke) and chord with my fingers and thumb. It's great. It's challenging at first but lose your picks for a month and you'll get it. You kind of have to.

November

[dirkji]

I'll rename the forum to Chord/Melody, that's a more accurate description than Fingerstyle.

- Dirk

[seanlowe]

You can play chord/melody with a pick, mind. John Scofield (after scrutinising his playing when he rarely comes to england) adopts a technique where he usually plays the melody note with the pick, bringing out its clarity, and maneuvering (pardon spelling) his other fingers above the pick (or below) to bring out his overtones and the rest god bless him

[aPAULo]

I do exactly what you do November. I use my thumb mainly for jazz, especially to bring out the Wes tone. I love that tone.

[Djangonot!]

Hi All,
I gave up picks about a year ago after struggling with them for years. I'm still trying to get the hang of it. There are a number of great guitar players who don't use picks. In the Jazz genre one who comes to mind is Tuck Andress who also fits in here as a Chord/Melody player, if I'm not mistaken.

Frank

[Butch]

I am not a classical player (I do know a few pieces that I am sure would make an actual classical cringe if he heard me ). However, my first instructor told me to get into the Frederick Noad classical books to get me started on right hand technique. My goal wasn't to be a classical player, but to get the ball rolling on using my fingers.

I started playing a 7-string about 4 years ago, and I am always confused about pick-fingers-pick-fingers. Frankly, it has driven me nuts, because you always give something up when you do one or the other.

I am currently trying to develp playing with my pick and my fingers at the same time. I can do this OK, but not as well as I do when I just do one or the other.

Something I have noticed is how I sound like two different guys when I play with a pick vs. playing with my fingers. Some lines are easier with a pick and I do some things with my fingers that are very difficult or impossible with a pick.

This may be the best route for me, as it forces me out of playing licks and opens up some variety in my playing.

Has anyone else noticed this in thier playing?

Best to all

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Butch

Has anyone else noticed this in thier playing?

Hey Butch, I know EXACTLY what you mean. I play fingerstyle and with a pick interchangably, but some tricks that work for me are these:

1. I leave picks either taped to my guitar or in the sides of the pickups, so that I don't have to worry about switching back and forth quickly and seamlessly

2. Any lick that I can play exclusively with a pick, I learn to play fingerstyle (Have you tried "alternate picking" with your index finger?)

3. when you play just fingerstyle, try and use your pinky a lot. That way when you play with both a pick and fingers, its easier on you to play the same patterns.

4. Have you ever tried a thumb-pick? you can fingerstyle normally and still grip the thumb pick like normal for the fast runs!

Eric Johnson does a lot of pick-fingerstyle stuff, so you can check him out for inspiration if needed. . .

Hope this helps!
-G

[Butch]

I have tried the alternating index finger idea, and thought it was pretty cool. Thanks for the input, as I came about doing this by accident. I am certainly not adept at this, but it is another "potential" in the bag of tricks!

I recently rented a Danny Gatton instructional DVD for fun and saw Danny doing the flatpick-finger combination. Of course, he was all over that approach and it got me giving that another go.

I mostly sit when I play, so I put the pick on my leg. I usually don't drop it, but no fun when the pick is on the floor and I need it in a few bars<g>.

The thumb pick idea is a whole seperate issue to me. I do play with a thumbpick quite often, as I wanted to keep the fingerstyle thing going while using the thumbpick like a flat pick. I take Herco thumbpicks and file them down to match the size of the small fender "jazz" picks or what used to also be called the "teardrop" picks. I can't find those picks anymore, so I keep mine compiled from several years of playing and keep the edges very smooth. However, I don't have the dexterity with the thumb picks that I have with the flat picks....which brings me to another queston for anyone out there in the know.

My first guitar instructor was a fingerstyle guy. He had the cooles thumb pick. It was a little "belt" that fit around his thumb that you could fit (with a little trimming) the flat pick of your choice. The "belt" kept the pick secure enough to use as a thumbpick, but allowed the pick to be manipulated when used as a flat pick with more control. In other words...the pick was a little loose and allowed you to roll, turn or what have you while still being secure in the "belt." I have searched high and low for anyone who makes this. I am at the point where I am ready to start making one myself. Standard thumbpicks are cool, but they don't allow me the articulation that I have with the small picks I have used for 30 years (hard to change at this point<g>).

Thanks for the comments G and best to you.

[Jazzaluk]

I'm in the same "finger vs pick" dilema. I love the pick to play the head of a nice ballad or bop tune, but prefer improvising with my fingers because of the phrasing I can achieve. I am intrigued by the "belt" pick idea and I'm wondering if this is similar to the Fred Kelly Bumblebee pick?
http://www.fredkellypicks.com/bumblebee.html

[gguge]

Originally Posted by seanlowe

You can play chord/melody with a pick, mind. John Scofield (after scrutinising his playing when he rarely comes to england) adopts a technique where he usually plays the melody note with the pick, bringing out its clarity, and maneuvering (pardon spelling) his other fingers above the pick (or below) to bring out his overtones and the rest god bless him

I learned to palm the pick like Scofield does. It was hard at first, but now I don't even think about it. Using the fingers and having the pick always available allows for a quick switch between the two or a combination of both. The pick can then come out quickly like a switchblade when you need to attack a little more.

[Butch]

Originally Posted by Jazzaluk

I'm in the same "finger vs pick" dilema. I love the pick to play the head of a nice ballad or bop tune, but prefer improvising with my fingers because of the phrasing I can achieve. I am intrigued by the "belt" pick idea and I'm wondering if this is similar to the Fred Kelly Bumblebee pick?
http://www.fredkellypicks.com/bumblebee.html

Jazzaluk, thanks for the link. This is similar to what my first guitar teacher (Charlie Lohmuller) used back in the 70's. The difference, is that with his "belt", you could put the pick of your choice in the belt slots. It did require a little trimming on the pick, but not difficult to do.

I will have to order a couple of those. What was cool about the way Charlie's thumbpick worked was that you could still effectively use the pick as a flat pick, because it had some abilty to move a little within the belt, but it was set in the belt firm enough to use as a thumbpick.

The main problem I have with a thumb pick is that I can't alter my attack on the strings as easily as I can with a flat pick (I still use the small fender tear drop shaped pick in a heavy gage). I worked a long time to develop a very even tone with a flat pick, and it is more challenging to do this with a regular thumb pick. Part of the beauty of playing with a flat pick is all of the differnt inflections of tone you can achieve with changing pressures and subtle changes of how high or low you hold the pick.

Thanks again - I am going to order a few of the picks from the link and I will report on what I think.

-Butch

[Butch]

Originally Posted by gguge

I learned to palm the pick like Scofield does. It was hard at first, but now I don't even think about it. Using the fingers and having the pick always available allows for a quick switch between the two or a combination of both. The pick can then come out quickly like a switchblade when you need to attack a little more.

I do this as well, and I'm pretty good about not dropping the pick. Unless I get a little too ambitious with the fingers while hodling the pick. We all need "swivel" wrists that we can rotate to different right hands that have different pick choices! I don't think I would like to be the first to opt for that surgery.

-Butch

[Jazzaluk]

Originally Posted by Butch

....The main problem I have with a thumb pick is that I can't alter my attack on the strings as easily as I can with a flat pick (I still use the small fender tear drop shaped pick in a heavy gage). I worked a long time to develop a very even tone with a flat pick, and it is more challenging to do this with a regular thumb pick. Part of the beauty of playing with a flat pick is all of the differnt inflections of tone you can achieve with changing pressures and subtle changes of how high or low you hold the pick.

Thanks again - I am going to order a few of the picks from the link and I will report on what I think.

-Butch

Thanks Butch...I have exactly the same issue with the thumbpick...I look forward to your opinion of the bumbblebee...I'm going to order a few myself....

P.S. I really enjoy monitoring this forum....great opinions and respectful people.

[wizard3739]

Me too, I always folded the pick into my palm until I flipped it out of sight a couple of times on the job. I decided to do without the pick for chord melodies, Bossa Nova changes and other similar types of music. Actually, it only took a couple of weeks to get it going (prevous classical training was a big help here).

"(I still use the small fender tear drop shaped pick in a heavy gage)."

I recently changed my pick to a Dunlop Purple translucent jazz pick after trying out numerous other heavy picks (including the glass/stone picks). I had to make the change because I could no longer find the picks I liked best (Similar to the Fender pick you mentioned, Butch) . Again, it only took a couple of weeks to become comfortable with the new picks. I never had any luck using the finger picks, IMHO, finger picks remove some of the sensitivity and accuracy from your playing and the sound I was getting was not even close to what I was aiming for. It is possible that I was too impatient at that time to take on the finger picks. best wishes

[d0nba3r]

Hello all, this is my first post here. I was fortunate enough to take some lessons from (in my opinion) the master of chord melody playing, Ted Greene. Ted almost never played with a pick, and he got a great tone. Sometimes he tuned his guitars down a step for a fuller sound, but he very rarely used a pick. His tone was incredible, in my opinion.

[bodidR]

Why not be proficient at both and let the music dictate how you play???
Just a thought . . .
rdr

[jonasfixe]

I also have problems to decide which to use. here my brief story:
I always used fingers on classical music, then 10 years later I decided to turn to electric guitar and started using a pick. Now, 10 more years after, I still am more confortable with the fingers except for a couple of scenarios:
- to "strum" the strings. I don't know if it is correctly said, but I mean to play 6-string chords, or fewer string in a arm-driven style. For instance, django reinhardt style
- To achieve a more clean tone, in solos or harpegios.

So I don't have really a solution, and until I have one, I will keep playing both ways

PS: I think we should never stick to a single style, a single guitar (acoustic or electric), a single fingering, a single pick thickness, a single amplifier, a single effect.... I think we win with diversity.

[fingerpicker]

I too started with a pick, but over the last 5 years have gotten away from it entirely.

Strumming is not a problem: I use my nails with both down- and up-strokes to get a precise rhythmic effect. I use down strokes only for heavier patterns or may use PIMA to pick chord melodies.

Likewise, I have developed sufficient speed to fingerpick single line solos that are nearly as fast as shredder-style leads.

For a while, I used acrylic nails to reinforce my natural nails when picking steel strings but even that has dropped by the wayside.

I have found that picks are simply too much of a hastle.

[Jazzaluk]

Fingerpicker

I am also predominately a fingerpicker, but I play in a guitar duo with a plectrum guitarist (who has beautiful tone) and a times it is difficult to project on the same level. The combination of fingerstyle with a picker produces some nice arrangements so I am trying to improve the balance between the two of us.

I am currently experimenting with string and setup combinations that will allow me to keep a light right hand touch (which I found produces the nicest tone from an amplified guitar) while also achieving some good balance with my fellow guitarist.

Do you have any advice regarding setup and strings to keep a light right hand touch and not sacrifice too much projection? and.. How do you setup your gear?

[fingerpicker]

I cheat!

My main axe is a Taylor T-5 run through a Roland Cube 60. Projection is not an issue. (Controlling my enthusiasm is sometimes an issue, but that's another story.)

The T-5 has a stock setup and uses Elixir Nanoweb 10 - 46 strings. This works well for wide variety of genres I play (country to classical).

I sometimes use a Taylor 314ce with GHS Silk and Steel strings.

I sometimes work with an autoharpist and have found that the best way to get a good balance is to use a PA system. I use a Peavey XR600G head through 12" speakers. The monitor allows us to make the playing adjustments to match the instrument to each other as well as with our vocals. This also allows me to use different guitars (each with its own channel) without wasting time making PA adjustments during performance.

A couple of my friends are doing what you are, and they basically match their guitars using a PA... with very good result.

I hope this helps.

[derek]

Agree. As a very part-time sound guy, I want to be able to control the levels of various instruments from the house. What we hear on stage and what is heard in the audience is never the same.

Having someone with decent ears out in the house leveling out the instruments, and bring one up as they solo is vital to what you are talking about imo.

[Jazzaluk]

Thanks Fingerpicker / Derek...I will try the PA suggestion

BTW..I have tried the T5 and I love the action and tonal range...actually I find there is a bit too much range for my playing which is pretty much exclusively jazz so I have been looking to focus my cash more narrowly on the jazz tones. So far I have found that the Sadowsky archtops are the easiest to play with the nicest jazz tones and they are lively enough for fingerstyle. I just need to decide between the Jimmy Bruno or Jim Hall Model.

Sadowsky Guitars | Archtops

Cheers

[derek]

If you are going to drop that kind of cheese, frankly I think the Sadowsky is the best guitar going for the $. I have played Benedettos, 1950's D'Angelicos, and other high end makers, but think the Sadowsky Jim Hall is the best guitar I have played.

It is designed after Jim's DA Jazzline, which was designed after the ES175. Roger used to service and keep up Jim's Jazzline for years, and asked if he could build Jim a guitar. The JH is the result.

Bruno got disenchanted with Benedetto for some reason, tried to collaborate with Hofner on a signature model, and wound up with Roger. You can hear his version on his two latests discs, "Solo", and "Maplewood Ave".

Roger has them made in Japan to his specs, then any finish work done in his shop I believe. I have been joneing for a JH since they have come out. If you get one and decide you don't like it, they have held their resale value extremely well.

When I have seen them on ebay (rare) they typically sell for around $500 less than new. You may know all of this, forgive me for rambling on. Please let us know if you get one.

[Jazzaluk]

Thanks again Derek... It's great to get a second opinion on these investments. I have done quite a bit of research since I hope this is my last purchase. I also tried the Hofner thinlines which are also great for fingerstyle. Sid Jocobs uses one on Youtube (playing these hip Bill Evans chords) He seems to have a really light touch with nice tone but not what I'm looking for. I looking for a fatter sound.

YouTube Video

[derek]

Sid is a good player, and a nice guy. He is good friends with the guy I study with, Tony DeCaprio.

Yeah, I like a bit different tone also, though he is getting a good one here. Tough to tell thru youtube. I have played a number of Hofners, and didn't like any of them, though they are very well made and seem a pretty good price. Good luck with the process.

[Jazzaluk]

Mr Beaumont.... Have you heard this guy? He's really got it going on. Another Tele wizard.

YouTube Video

Brazilian Guitarist Genil Castro

[derek]

I saw a recent clip of Castro, wonderful player. Thanks for putting up this clip.