What scale length for Chord Melody?

Larry Feldman · #1 12-14-2011, 09:31 PM

I have an L5 copy, and also a Heritage Sweet 16. The Sweet 16 has a smaller scale neck on it, and is easier to do chord melody things with. Usually I prefer my L5 copy because it feeds back less, but was using the Heritage at a restaurant gig and to back up singers. Does anyone else use a guitar with a smaller scaled neck for chord melodies, especially to be able to get tough chord reaches?

mr. beaumont · #2 12-14-2011, 10:04 PM

I play chord melody on everything...shorter scale only makes a difference at the first fret really...

Flyin' Brian · #3 12-14-2011, 11:45 PM

If the L-5 copy is accurate then it and the Sweet 16 have the same scale. 25.5"

oldane · #4 12-18-2011, 04:42 AM

I think one should choose instrument and set up based on what one finds best sounding. If a long scale, a higher action, heavier strings or whatever sounds best, go with that. It may be harder to play in the beginning, but one will get used to it with practice. On the other hand, there's no need to make it more hard, if it doesn't provide something extra.

TruthHertz · #5 12-18-2011, 06:42 AM

I've found that action, set up and actual neck thickness are to be considered too, at least for me. I have a Johnny Smith, very comfortable to play with a longer scale, but it's actually easier to play than a shorter scale guitar with a beefier neck. I routinely recarve the neck contour on any guitar I intend on keeping; it transforms a guitar to a shocking degree. That, of course is purely subjective and understand that I have relatively small hands so what works for some doesn't for me and visa versa.
David

CarolM · #6 12-20-2011, 10:31 AM

It seems like where the neck joins the body makes a difference, with equal scale lengths. I used to do some chord melody stuff on pop songs, and with a Strat it seemed much more comfortable to zoom right up the middle of the neck past the 12th fret, but with my Artcore AG75, it doesn't seem that accessible.

Larry Feldman · #7 12-20-2011, 02:08 PM

These are all good replies. Bryan, I'm not sure what the scale length is on my L5 Copy. As the thread has progressed I'm realizing I may favor the neck on my Heritage for other reasons than merely length. Maybe it is width? Still trying to figure it out.

ronjazz · #8 01-01-2012, 10:06 AM

The Johnny Smith has a hybrid scale length of 25", specifically for chord-melody playing.

Larry Feldman · #9 01-01-2012, 11:54 PM

A Johnny Smith? Good to know. Thanks.

Tom Karol · #10 01-02-2012, 06:50 AM

I don't have big hands, but I generally like to play guitars with a 25.5 inch scale and a 1 11/16 inch nut width. However, I recently tried an Eastman for the first time. It had a 25 inch scale and a 1.75 inch nut width. I found it very comfortable for chord-melody styles.

Larry Feldman · #11 01-02-2012, 10:56 AM

I've heard good things about Eastmans. Thanks Tom, and Happy New Year.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #12 01-02-2012, 11:19 AM

Yeah, I think wider string placement, like a 1 3/4" nut, makes more of a difference, especially if you are playing fingerstyle. But that could just be my sloppy pickin'.

Larry Feldman · #13 01-02-2012, 11:52 AM

I don't think it is sloppy picking. I've noticed the same thing. With acoustics that have a wider string placement i can get certain arrangements like some Earl Klugh solo arrangements. I have to be more conscious of my right hand when using my archtops, especially when I play If I Only Had A Brain. Some guitars are easier on the right hand, some for left hand grips. Thanks for posting and Happy New Year

Cooperro · #14 01-09-2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I play chord melody on everything...shorter scale only makes a difference at the first fret really...

That doesn't sound right. I have different scale guitars as you can see, and the one's with shorter scales feel cramped above the tenth fret.

I believe the scale length also affects all the fret distances in a percentage or ratio related to the scale length. In other words, they didn't just make the neck an inch shorter - the whole thing's been adjusted.

TruthHertz · #15 01-09-2012, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooperro

That doesn't sound right. I have different scale guitars as you can see, and the one's with shorter scales feel cramped above the tenth fret.

I believe the scale length also affects all the fret distances in a percentage or ratio related to the scale length. In other words, they didn't just make the neck an inch shorter - the whole thing's been adjusted.

In the same way a capo changes the whole scale. Yes that's right.

I think the biggest difference for chord melody is not scale length as much as fingerboard width though. But as far as your comment, the whole scale is proportional and each fret distance is reduced or extended proportionately. You will get a first fret that is larger than anything on a regular scale length if you get a longer scale though.
David

mr. beaumont · #16 01-09-2012, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooperro

That doesn't sound right. I have different scale guitars as you can see, and the one's with shorter scales feel cramped above the tenth fret.

I believe the scale length also affects all the fret distances in a percentage or ratio related to the scale length. In other words, they didn't just make the neck an inch shorter - the whole thing's been adjusted.

I think the 10th fret on my Gibson scale guitars feels like the 11th fret on my Fender scale guitars.

I dunno, maybe I'm weird, scale length just doesn't bug me. I go between a 26.5" Gypsy jazz guitar, a 25.5" semi hollow, and a 24.75" archtop pretty regularly now, and the adjustment period between them is a minute or two at most...I play chord melody on all of 'em, and I'm certainly no superhuman guitar talent!

amhabz · #17 01-09-2012, 11:12 PM

doesn't bug me either, I go from my SG to my tele and don't feel any difference. If I play a Jaguar, it takes a couple of minutes to get used to the 24" scale.

Cooperro · #18 01-12-2012, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I think the 10th fret on my Gibson scale guitars feels like the 11th fret on my Fender scale guitars.

I dunno, maybe I'm weird, scale length just doesn't bug me. I go between a 26.5" Gypsy jazz guitar, a 25.5" semi hollow, and a 24.75" archtop pretty regularly now, and the adjustment period between them is a minute or two at most...I play chord melody on all of 'em, and I'm certainly no superhuman guitar talent!

I like your analogy - yes, the tenth fret on a short scale feels like the eleventh fret on a longer scale - well put. I don't have any trouble either on any of my different scale lengths until I get up around the 10th fret or higher. Then, my chunky hands get a bit cramped. Sometimes I'll re-voice my chord choice to accommodate.

ronjazz · #19 01-13-2012, 02:53 AM

For many players, the size of the body may be more important than the scale length. The big guitars of 17" and 18" are difficult for smaller people to get comfortable with; 15" and 16" guitars are generally easier to hold and have both hands free and the shoulders relaxed. As much as I loved my L5s, I have abandoned guitars that big to save my physical health, and as a result, my playing is more fluid and chord melody a bit easier, and shoulder and neck cramps a thing of the past. When seeking a guitar, pay attention to the ergonomics as well as the sound and looks.

Synchro · #20 01-20-2012, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I play chord melody on everything...shorter scale only makes a difference at the first fret really...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I think the 10th fret on my Gibson scale guitars feels like the 11th fret on my Fender scale guitars.

I dunno, maybe I'm weird, scale length just doesn't bug me. I go between a 26.5" Gypsy jazz guitar, a 25.5" semi hollow, and a 24.75" archtop pretty regularly now, and the adjustment period between them is a minute or two at most...I play chord melody on all of 'em, and I'm certainly no superhuman guitar talent!

Yep! If you do the math most of the difference is beneath the threshold of perception. I've played a 24" Jaguar, a 24.6" Gretsch and a 25.5" Gretsch back to back with no problems. I've tried out Gypsy jazz guitars and usually muffed a couple of long arpeggios before I got the feel of it. (They are a lot of fun to play.)

I find that for chord melody playing just about any guitar with a decent setup will cut the mustard.

wizard3739 · #21 01-21-2012, 09:58 AM

[quote=Synchro;
I find that for chord melody playing just about any guitar with a decent setup will cut the mustard.[/quote]

yep!

wiz

TruthHertz · #22 03-16-2012, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kris

"Longer scale = higher tension = more downward pressure at the bridge = better transference of the strings’ kinetic energy = better resonance = better tone. "
Bill Moll
a 25.5” scale length is it the best for arch-top?

Interview with Bill Moll | Miami Jazz Guitar

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronjazz

For many players, the size of the body may be more important than the scale length. The big guitars of 17" and 18" are difficult for smaller people to get comfortable with; 15" and 16" guitars are generally easier to hold and have both hands free and the shoulders relaxed. As much as I loved my L5s, I have abandoned guitars that big to save my physical health, and as a result, my playing is more fluid and chord melody a bit easier, and shoulder and neck cramps a thing of the past. When seeking a guitar, pay attention to the ergonomics as well as the sound and looks.

+1 on these sentiments
David

Flyin' Brian · #23 03-16-2012, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronjazz

For many players, the size of the body may be more important than the scale length. The big guitars of 17" and 18" are difficult for smaller people to get comfortable with; 15" and 16" guitars are generally easier to hold and have both hands free and the shoulders relaxed. As much as I loved my L5s, I have abandoned guitars that big to save my physical health, and as a result, my playing is more fluid and chord melody a bit easier, and shoulder and neck cramps a thing of the past. When seeking a guitar, pay attention to the ergonomics as well as the sound and looks.

I agree that ergonomically this is pretty important. My sweet 16 is the largest body that I want to deal with and it's custom in that it's 1/2" thinner than a standard Sweet 16. I played it next to a full size one and the difference in sound is negligible.

I'm considering a 15" size even more as I get older, either having Heritage make me something or perhaps a Sadowsky SS-15 or Bruno model.

pantz · #24 04-06-2012, 11:23 AM

I play chord-melody on anything, but my two favorites (among my guitars) are my ES-175 and Soloway Swan. The ES-175 is (obviously) a moderate-sized body/weight with a fairly short scale - easy to make fret stretches. However, the Soloway (small, light body with extended scale) is my best-sounding guitar for C-M in my stable. The chime it has and the string definition really aren't matched by any of the others. And since I have big hands & long fingers, the scale hasn't really been a problem, although I've heard of people not liking the extended scale for that reason.