Tuning thought

[CGKnight]

Here's a thought.


As the EADGBE tuning is said to favour the keys E, A, and D (both major and minor), maybe a chord melody guitarist should work with 5 tunings?

Half step down for Eb, Ab, and Db,
one step down for D, G, and C,
standard for E, A, and D,
half step up for F, Bb, and Eb,
and a whole step up for Gb/F#, B and E.

As the note relations will be the same, I'm guessing in a few months the player will adapt to the tunings, and will be able play equally well in all keys...And maybe even learn to switch through the tunings faster (Of course, there's the capo, but it kinda disorients me.)

Your thoughts on this?

[Drumbler]

5 tunings?

I have trouble with just one!

Johnny Smith used a unique tuning. Also Ralph Patt explains his unique "major 3rd" tuning he used on his website:

The Major 3rd Tuning

[JakeAcci]

What was J Smith's tuning? I thought he played in standard mostly.

[Drumbler]

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

What was J Smith's tuning? I thought he played in standard mostly.

Drop D

[mr. beaumont]

Well, a solo guitar player might opt to change keys for some things, as opposed to change tunings...

But for the most part, I like the fact that the open strings become some wild stuff when playing in a "flat" key on a standard tuned guitar.

[brad4d8]

Originally Posted by CGKnight

Your thoughts on this?

Why don't you just get five guitars and keep each one tuned to your different tunings?
Actually, you'd probably be better served with a couple of good books with moveable chords. Arnie Berle's "Chord Progressions for Jazz and Popular Guitar" or Andrew Green's "Jazz Guitar Comping" come to mind. Soon, keys like C#, Eb or Bb won't be a problem.
Just my 2 cents on the subject.
Brad

[whatswisdom]

Originally Posted by brad4d8

Why don't you just get five guitars and keep each one tuned to your different tunings?

Ever heard of a capo?

[jayv999]

Ya still gotta know the flats and sharps.
Use a capo if you want the open string chords or change keys.
Most good teachers will ask their students to learn a song in all 12 keys (for at least one piece) so they learn the fingerboard, and learn to think in other keys. One wonderful thing when playing a song is to modulate to another key after the bridge. Don't get stuck in one key, one fingering, one tuning....especially if you're playing solo guitar.

[CGKnight]

Brad4d8 - Was speaking from more of a bass point of view. Isn't it lame when one has to choose between a. low bass notes with low melody notes, and b. high melody notes with high bass notes...? But it's probably nitpicking, in which case - my apologies if I started a pointless thread

Drumbler, seeing it is the same thing just a few frets up or down, would it really be hard? O_o Methinks in a few months one'd find it easy to 'transpose' the map in one's head.

I do know of the maj3rd tuning, but that's more fitted to cluster chords, among other things. I also admire how it's (on paper, atleast) somewhat easier to learn than 4ths/standard. It needs a 7 string to have an average guitar's range, however.

[brad4d8]

Originally Posted by CGKnight

Brad4d8 - Was speaking from more of a bass point of view. Isn't it lame when one has to choose between a. low bass notes with low melody notes, and b. high melody notes with high bass notes...? But it's probably nitpicking, in which case - my apologies if I started a pointless thread

Huh? I was? I thought I was writing from the point of view that it's better to learn your way around the fingerboard than to try retuning so you only have to learn a few keys, but I've been known to be wrong before!
Not a pointless thread, but seems to me like very limiting and time consuming.
Brad

[EightString]

On a related note, I'm thinking of getting a string damper because I never play open strings when I'm doing jazz.

However, that's more my personal limitation, since there are certainly some nice things you can do with open strings.

Modern Jazz Improv - #8 Open String Voicings - Jazz Guitar Lessons - YouTube


Does this mean I'm overly dependent on moveable chords?

[brad4d8]

Originally Posted by EightString

On a related note, I'm thinking of getting a string damper because I never play open strings when I'm doing jazz.

I almost mentioned one in my last post, suggesting that a search for Herb Ellis might show the way he uses it. His (and the one I have that I haven't installed yet) flips at the nut so you can use open strings as long as you decide before hand that you want them or can move it quickly in the middle of a tune.
Brad

[CGKnight]

Brad4d8 - *I* was speaking from a bass point of view. And nowhere have I stated that it's so that a person can skip learning some keys. It's just so that one may get some bass notes more easily for those keys. And of course one wouldn't like to be dependent on the open strings for bass, and that's why I said it's probably just nitpicking. From what I know, Ted Greene used this (tuning as far down as -3 semitones from standard, and then drop D) on his album. Hence I wondered if it could serve this purpose.

[jayv999]

Kenny Poole also used to tune his guitar down. On his "Deep End of the Poole" video he's down a major 3rd! Very rich sounding, but you got to put on heavier gauge strings in order to tune down that far.
--Jay

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by CGKnight

Brad4d8 - *I* was speaking from a bass point of view. And nowhere have I stated that it's so that a person can skip learning some keys. It's just so that one may get some bass notes more easily for those keys. And of course one wouldn't like to be dependent on the open strings for bass, and that's why I said it's probably just nitpicking. From what I know, Ted Greene used this (tuning as far down as -3 semitones from standard, and then drop D) on his album. Hence I wondered if it could serve this purpose.

It could have, but if you read Ted's long time girlfriend's memoir of living with him (a fantastic read, btw) you get a glimpse inside Ted's brain...Ted was a lot more sensitive to the subtle nuances of sound than most of us...there were days he felt a guitar just sounded better tuned lower...it often had nothing to do with the key of a tune...

[brad4d8]

Originally Posted by CGKnight

Brad4d8 - *I* was speaking from a bass point of view. And nowhere have I stated that it's so that a person can skip learning some keys. It's just so that one may get some bass notes more easily for those keys. And of course one wouldn't like to be dependent on the open strings for bass

Ah, the "I" clears that up. If you want to expand the bass, have you thought about going to a seven or eight string guitar? As to bass, if you're playing with others, you have to be careful not to encroach on what the bass player (or even piano player) is playing. Or, you might try just tuning the sixth or fifth and sixth down rather than the whole guitar, but that's just my thoughts, it might not work for you. I'm primarily a rhythm player so I probably come at things from a completely different angle.

Brad

[jayv999]

Agreed about Ted Greene. Ted had monster ears and would play a song in the key that he was feeling at the moment. He liked to tune down, but often played in standard.

On one of the videos he talks about a mock-seven string sound by tuning the 6th string to an A and the 5th string to an E. This simply reverses the letter names of the 6th and 5th strings, so you don't have to completely re-think all your chord forms - all you have to do is to switch your bass notes. For example, if you normally would play a Cmaj7 as 1,5,7,3 on strings 5,4,3,2 (in 3rd position), you would change it to strings 6,4,3,2 and it would have a C bass note an octave lower. It takes a little getting used to, but it gives the impression that you're playing a 7-string. Cool little trick!

The book about Ted is entitled, My Life with the Chord Chemist by Barbara Franklin. Incidentally, she just recently passed away, but the TedGreene.com teaching & tribute website continues and offers a ton of material for free.
--Jay

[EightString]

Originally Posted by jayv999

Agreed about Ted Greene. Ted had monster ears and would play a song in the key that he was feeling at the moment. He liked to tune down, but often played in standard.

On one of the videos he talks about a mock-seven string sound by tuning the 6th string to an A and the 5th string to an E. This simply reverses the letter names of the 6th and 5th strings, so you don't have to completely re-think all your chord forms - all you have to do is to switch your bass notes. For example, if you normally would play a Cmaj7 as 1,5,7,3 on strings 5,4,3,2 (in 3rd position), you would change it to strings 6,4,3,2 and it would have a C bass note an octave lower. It takes a little getting used to, but it gives the impression that you're playing a 7-string. Cool little trick!

The book about Ted is entitled, My Life with the Chord Chemist by Barbara Franklin. Incidentally, she just recently passed away, but the TedGreene.com teaching & tribute website continues and offers a ton of material for free.
--Jay

Now that is a cool trick!

Obviously one I don't need, but still... very cool.

[KeyLime]

Originally Posted by CGKnight

Here's a thought.


As the EADGBE tuning is said to favour the keys E, A, and D (both major and minor), maybe a chord melody guitarist should work with 5 tunings?

One standard tuning should suffice, eh? No need for re-tuning between songs, I think, or 5 guitars in different standard tunings...

It's not hard to grab different keys. That's one of the great things about guitar. Move up...move down...move sideways...it's elementary, dear Watson.

[CGKnight]

mr.B - Thanks. I wasn't aware of that information regarding Ted.

jayv999 - Whoa. Useful info! Thank you.