Do you make up your own chords?

[Drumbler]

When you first learn your chord melodies do you use the chords on the lead sheet (if you use a lead sheet) or do you just put your own chord under the note?

I've done it both ways but usually just use my own chords out of my head.

[Vihar]

Originally Posted by Drumbler

When you first learn your chord melodies do you use the chords on the lead sheet (if you use a lead sheet) or do you just put your own chord under the note?

I've done it both ways but usually just use my own chords out of my head.

My "own" ones.

[mr. beaumont]

Charts are always a suggestion, not an ultimatum.

usually, charts are simplified anyway, and the melody plus the harmony will give you a more specific chord sound...

[artcore]

I seem to be following the charts with extensions and a few alterations..I recently read a very good book on substiutions, looking to find a few new ways to reharmonize, but sometimes, the suggested cords sound better...
I fall back on the drop2 and 2/3...with triads...Right now I'm working through "Embracable you" ( Gershwin)...the suggested harmony, to me, sounds good, ...I may fool around with it...but I doubt I can improve it..

[sundogg52]

There are basically three kinds of chords, major, minor and dominant. Everything charted for chord melody playing will be some variation of these chords and usually the extension or alteration will be to incorporate the melody note or the grace note into the chord. "Making up" chords is kind of difficult, you are more than likely simply discoving unfamiliar voicings of the target chord.

[TruthHertz]

Always my own. On tunes where the harmony may be elusive or have a very characteristic movement to it, I'll use the root movement, but as far as visualizing and then playing chords, it's target chords and my choice of chords, voicings and substitutions to flesh out the route to getting there.
I found that as I was learning my way around improvisation and composition, there was a vocabulary of "getting there" and the more ways I assimilated, the more I was able to know and anticipate the chords of a tune without consulting the lead sheet. Most tunes come easy now and coincide with the written chords.
David

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Charts are always a suggestion, not an ultimatum.

usually, charts are simplified anyway, and the melody plus the harmony will give you a more specific chord sound...

+1 on that!! Great rule of thumb.

[JonnyPac]

I have a chordal vocabulary that is hand-picked. I can't say I ever invented my own chords (or the wheel for that matter ).

I have several chord voicings with each note on top (for the melody) in every possible quality. If the P5 of a C tonic is called for many "favorites" pop up immediately. I may choose a different one each time thru, or stick with the one I think fits best. Just think intervals at all times; this will allow all sorts of creative options. Jazz is about being creative, and personal choices are paramount, IMHO.

[Jake Hanlon]

I tend to ditch the original chords after the first A section if it's an AABA or ABAC type of form and just reharmonize everything if I feel that it's the right way to go.

Sometimes the tune just has so much nice harmony that no re-harmonization is needed and all you need are some passing chords

[Jazzaluk]

Originally Posted by sundogg52

There are basically three kinds of chords, major, minor and dominant. Everything charted for chord melody playing will be some variation of these chords and usually the extension or alteration will be to incorporate the melody note or the grace note into the chord. "Making up" chords is kind of difficult, you are more than likely simply discoving unfamiliar voicings of the target chord.

I share Sundog52's take. When I first learn a chord melody I definitely look to preserve the basic underlying structure. Major, minor and dominant. Then it boils down to choices ... bass line movement, melodic embellishment, inner line movement, and voice leading from target to target, and of course rhythm and syncopation. These are the basic tools I use.

If you analyze the results "vertically", all kinds of seemingly new chords will appear that can be categorized as inversions,substitutions, alterations etc, but this is really an illusion. The basic harmonic structure should be preserved.

Add an intro to set the mood, an improv section too stretch out a bit; a nice ending and its done.

Personally, I don't see the point in reharm. To me it is DNA tampering. I prefer to just learn another tune if I'm bored with what I'm playing. Or maybe even try to craft a new tune.

[JonnyPac]

Originally Posted by Jazzaluk

Personally, I don't see the point in reharm. To me it is DNA tampering. I prefer to just learn another tune if I'm bored with what I'm playing. Or maybe even try to craft a new tune.

I feel the same 90% of the time.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by Jazzaluk

Personally, I don't see the point in reharm. To me it is DNA tampering.

Not a fan of Bill Evans I take it?
David

YouTube Video

[JonnyPac]

Bill is the man- WWBED (What would Bill Evans do?) is a good thing to keep in mind when reharmonizing. I think my 10% is based on this- hell; I really dig his versions of tunes in the NRB series more than the originals.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by JonnyPac

Bill is the man- I really dig his versions of tunes in the NRB series more than the originals.

Absolutely! There were songs I learned in my mind before I heard the originals. I would say "THAT came from THIS?"
I feel the same way about Monk.

I love a beautiful tune for its natural beauty of course, but a really skilled improvisor with a deep knowledge of harmony can pay the deepest homage to a piece by bringing out things I'd missed in the original form.

I listen to Cyrus Chestnut's Hymns, Spirituals and Carols and it's truly magic what a sensitive reharm can do.

YouTube Video

No disrespect to the genetic lineage of the piece here, but a lot of tasteful reharm.
David

[JonnyPac]

On a Time Remembered live disc I have he reharmed What is this thing called love so much that it was almost unrecognizable- different the the first trio recordings. It sounded like the modal interchange was out the roof. Very interesting!

The BIG difference to me is when it becomes an arrangement as opposed to a spontaneous idea. Bill Evans played a tune within the framework at hand regardless if it was the composer's version of the changes or his own. If three or more guys are rehamonizing a standard in their own ways, the chaos might not be heard as beautiful complexity! It's all about high probabilities favorable outcomes.

[wizard3739]

Thanks for the great link for a Bill Evans improvisation. I love trying to play along after I've listened a few times. Bill Evans is still one of my all-time favorite players.

wiz

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by JonnyPac

It's all about high probabilities favorable outcomes.

Hmmm, for me it's about being able to imagine unrealized possibilities and then bringing them to life with intention and integrity.
David

[JonnyPac]

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

Hmmm, for me it's about being able to imagine unrealized possibilities and then bringing them to life with intention and integrity.
David

That's good too. Herbie Hancock was a flipping wizard in that regard. I have yet to hear a guitarist pull off something on par.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by JonnyPac

I have yet to hear a guitarist pull off something on par.

I hear Ben Monder do it every time I see him. He expects if of himself. Sometimes a solo will be entire reharm that would do Bach himself proud. I've seen solos of his with no single note lines at all. Absolutely breath taking. And the precision with which he matches the points of architecture of the original pieces is scary. He takes enormous risks every solo he takes and he's become very good at pulling it off. Night after night. Solo after solo.
Mick Goodrick is also a master at restating harmony in an other worldly way yet it comes across as sounding like the way it always should have been.

I'd love to see someone that I'd call the Brad Mehldau of guitar, and Ben and Mick are certainly on par, but Brad's the cat these days. And Fred Hersch.
Pianists take their structural play very seriously. Curious to note that so many of the really imaginative guitarists that I like and admire don't see guitarists as their primary inspirations. They cite Pianists and Bach. Bach Chorales. That seems to be a strong thread. Voice leading. Harmonic convergence...
David

[Jazzaluk]

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

Not a fan of Bill Evans I take it?
David

Nice stuff. Can you play that on the guitar?

[JonnyPac]

Sound cools, David. I'm checking him out. I'm pretty out of touch with jazz post 1969! I do have a few contemporary albums- Brad for covering my teen-fav band Radiohead and artists like Nick Drake and Elliott Smith.

Bill Evans voicings are nearly impossible on the fretboard- watered down versions take up the full LH with almost no room to add the melody. It is very piano based music- though VERY inspirational.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by Jazzaluk

Nice stuff. Can you play that on the guitar?

It can be done. I've heard guitarist Jack Pezanelli take a tune off the cuff and harmonize it a la Bill Evans. All the time he was annotating his performance. Asked what the secret was, he said "think like a piano player"

Can I play this on guitar? I'm working on it. My goal is not to be Bill Evans but I'm finding ways to understand the approach on the guitar.
David

[JonnyPac]

Here are some Bill Evans-Herbie-McCoy inspired voicings for guitar. I got them from the Jazz Piano Book, The Harmony of Bill Evans, and transcriptions on the LH of these players. The trick is using these "grips" to flesh out the intervals and put them in the best ranges. Too low they get muddy (pianists have a conscious lower limit unlike many guitarists). Using a "grab" instead of a strum sounds more piano-like too.

Jazz Piano Style Guitar Voicings in Music Theory, Guitar Lessons and Song Writing Tools Forum

http://carychiltonforums.yuku.com/to...d-Scale-Theory

Note that these are the beta versions- I will update them soon.

[Jazzaluk]

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

It can be done. I've heard guitarist Jack Pezanelli take a tune off the cuff and harmonize it a la Bill Evans. All the time he was annotating his performance. Asked what the secret was, he said "think like a piano player"

Can I play this on guitar? I'm working on it. My goal is not to be Bill Evans but I'm finding ways to understand the approach on the guitar.
David

Sounds challenging. When I think of chord melody, I think of solo work. From the OP's question, I would not approach a new piece by trying to re-harmonize it right off the bat. It would only lead to confusion. I don't even think Ben Monder would recommend doing that.

Anyway best of luck. Adapting Bill Evans to guitar has been tried before. It usually sounds unique but not very free when 4 fingers are used to approximate ten. You might find that the best approximation of Bill Evans does not come from re-harm, but rather the use of rootless extensions and "really good" voice leading. But I suppose the word re-harm means different things to different people.

[JonnyPac]

Originally Posted by Jazzaluk

But I suppose the word re-harm means different things to different people.

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/theor...finitions.html

[Jazzaluk]

Hey JohnnyPac ... You are definitely the forum wikipedia. I remember this thread and I agree with the conclusions. I am resolved that rearm is basically drawing from a new tonal center.

I attended a workshop hosted by Vic Juris and he explained his rearm of ATTYA. Very interesting and ingenious. But not a starting point for learning the tune.

I am looking for the lead sheet he gave us ... I hope I didn't lose it!

If I find it I will post it. Here he is playing the rearm version. He played it as a solo chord melody at the workshop.

YouTube Video

[brwnhornet59]

This has been a great thread with many excellent points. I loved the Bill Evans tune posted earlier. This Vic Juris Reharm of ATTYA, is great.

[jster]

Originally Posted by JonnyPac

That's good too. Herbie Hancock was a flipping wizard in that regard. I have yet to hear a guitarist pull off something on par.

Can you link to or name a few of the tunes you have in mind? Thanks.

[JonnyPac]

Sure- get Inventions and Dimensions by Herbie. The whole album is based on some very loose, almost game-like improv ideas, and it sounds wonderful- not noisy, dissonant "free jazz" but something very special.

After hearing that, his work as a band leader and sideman with Miles and Wayne Shorter make a lot more sense, and you can really appreciate his talent and ear.