Major and Dominant Drop 2s with roots and thirds on top

JEdgarWinter · #1 12-22-2010, 12:53 AM

This is my first thread, so I hope I am not being redundant vis-a-vis the discussion here.

I wonder if others find situations with major and dominant chords with roots or thirds for melody notes to be difficult to harmonize with drop 2 chords, especially drop 2s on the top 4 strings.

Here are the offenders:

root on top of a Cmaj7:

xx9988

root on top of a C7:

xx8988

third on top of a Cmaj7:

xx 10 12 12 12

third on top of a C7:

xx 10 12 11 12

None of these voicings, to my ears, are especially good.

The solutions I know are:

a) using a big Joe Pass-type chord

(e.g. 8 10 x 9 12 12 for major7)

or

b) using a related minor quartal harmony type chord)

(e.g. something like x77788 for a Cmaj7 with the root on top).

Anybody have other strategies that work? I would love to hear them!

bako · #2 12-22-2010, 08:04 AM

x-10-x-9-12-8 or 3-x-2-4-1-x use a m2 B-C instead of the b9 B-C.
The b9 is a bit dissonant for a simple calm presentation of the root note lead.
Mostly I do as you suggest, voice it to the major function using 6 and 9 instead of the literal Ma7.
The crunchy sounding b9 Cma7's works best in the context of chords in motion.

The 3rd on top drop 2's sound fine. It is not as rich as the spread voicing you suggest (8 10 x 9 12 12)
but it depends on what best serves the moment.

JohnW400 · #3 12-22-2010, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEdgarWinter

Here are the offenders:

root on top of a Cmaj7:

xx9988

root on top of a C7:

xx8988

third on top of a Cmaj7:

xx 10 12 12 12

third on top of a C7:

xx 10 12 11 12

Anybody have other strategies that work? I would love to hear
them!

The first one 9988, is starting to grow on me after all these years. I think Joe Pass had a solution of using either C6/9 xx7788 or Ami7 xx7988.

However I am finding the 9988 useful in melodies that move a bit in 1/4's or 1/8ths. The Dominant 7 one is fine to my ears. since it's now a Ma9 rather than a mi9 spread. (I think a tougher one is the Cma7/B 7 x 555 x)

The other two you list are used all the time . But again try Ami7 xx10 12 10 12 for the major. You might like that better

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #4 12-22-2010, 11:07 AM

Awww, I like the CMaj7/B (7x555), for ballads. I like to accentuate the bass note as if to say "I meant to do that; now contemplate that major seventh!".

Example: in the "alternative turn around" CMaj7 EbMaj7 F#Maj7 AMaj7, rather than always sliding the grip up the neck by minor thirds (predictable), I like
to play the bass notes detached from the chords, and kept close to each other:

CMaj7: 7x555x
EbMaj7: 6x574x
F#Maj7: 6x466x
AMaj7: 5x665x

YMMV, but I like that mysterious sound.

ksjazzguitar · #5 12-22-2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEdgarWinter

...None of these voicings [drop-2 voicings on the top 4 strings], to my ears, are especially good.

The solutions I know are:

a) using a big Joe Pass-type chord
...
b) using a related minor quartal harmony type chord)...

I think that it is just a matter of what texture you want. If you want a deep bass note, then drop-2 is not for you - and sometimes I would agree. But if you want a more nimble mobile line on top (active melody, chromatic motion) sometimes those drop-2 (or similar voicings) are just what the doctor ordered.

I can't think of an example that I have of a head that has lots of drop-2 (I should record one.) My version of "Witchcraft" (on the youtube link below) has a few drop-2 voicings in the head, and a lot in the second half of the solo.

I think it all just depends on the texture you want.

Peace,
Kevin

JEdgarWinter · #6 12-22-2010, 04:19 PM

Thank you all for the excellent replies! Very helpful!

M-ster · #7 12-22-2010, 05:09 PM

Hmm, some more thoughts:

Often when the root or 5th is in the melody, you have a good spot for a passing chord/reharmonization/substitution. Opportunities!

Unless it's a classroom test, no one says you have to stay drop-2 throughout. Why not replace the unsatisfying sounds with more satisfying options?

JEdgarWinter · #8 12-22-2010, 10:31 PM

M-ster--excellent point! To be honest, I have absolutely no idea why I get so fixated on drop 2s!

ksjazzguitar · #9 12-23-2010, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M-ster

...no one says you have to stay drop-2 throughout.

Yeah, drop-2 is a handy organizing tool, and I think it is a good way to practice, but some of them can be a little awkward as you're rushing through a chord solo. Often if the root or 5th is on top of a Maj7, I'll just grab a quartal voicing.

Peace,
Kevin

M-ster · #10 12-23-2010, 01:24 AM

Once I wrote an entire soli section in a big band chart with the horns voiced in 4ths. My instructor was looking over my work with me, and he immediately asked, "Why is this entire section in 4ths voicings? Kinda monotonous, isn't it?"

JEdgarWinter · #11 12-23-2010, 03:01 AM

Thanks ksjazzguitar and M-ster-- and that's a good point re: monotony. This seems like one of the important musical maturity issues with CM playing--keeping things interesting without jumping around all the time. Judging from my own experience, learning "good" voice leading can certainly induce a kind of hesitancy around mixing things up, jumping octaves, changing voicing structures, etc.