Kenny G?

[rjtorres]

Ok, so this is really off-topic to the forum, but I'd like to know what's your take on him - is he good? Not so? Is he disgusting? Do you love him? Hate him?

The reason I ask is because I've heard a lot of hate for this man (one coming from a very respected guitar player), but I'm not so sure I should believe right away. He sounds fine by me - just not something I would listen to (I don't think he is even Jazz, but millions of copies sold under "Jazz" category begs to differ.) Maybe you guys can give me an interesting answer.

[Goofsus4]

I think Kenny G is to music as Thomas Kincade is to painting.

http://bwaystack.files.wordpress.com...nkade11nr9.jpg


http://mrshurstsartpage.files.wordpr...12/kinkade.jpg

Kincade is hated by fellow artists. Yet, he is phenomenally successful amongst the uneducated art-buying public. Look at these paintings - they are lovely and demonstrate a mastery of the medium. Yet, the style is somehow so sugary and sentimental that it offends a lot of fine artists.

[derek]

I have heard from Jimmy Bruno, that Kenny Gorlick is actually a very good player, and in fact can play bebop. They were on a gig together once. He clearly found a niche where he was able to make a ton of money. This is true of many "smooth jazz" players.

His saccharine playing is not what drove most jazz players over the top, as everyone has a right to make a living as they wish. It was when he played over Louie Armstrong's Wonderful World, and released that as a single, he pretty much pissed on a jazz icon's graves, and lost the respect of most players.

[fep]

Originally Posted by derek

I have heard from Jimmy Bruno, that Kenny Gorlick is actually a very good player, and in fact can play bebop. They were on a gig together once. He clearly found a niche where he was able to make a ton of money. This is true of many "smooth jazz" players.

His saccharine playing is not what drove most jazz players over the top, as everyone has a right to make a living as they wish. It was when he played over Louie Armstrong's Wonderful World, and released that as a single, he pretty much pissed on a jazz icon's graves, and lost the respect of most players.

I think the Louie Armstrong thing is way overblown. I doubt Kenny G had any malicious intent and perhaps he thought he was honoring the memory of Armstrong. How that is pissing on someones grave is beyond me. This Armstrong issue seems to be just a way of rationalizing and justifying all ones hatred towards Kenny G.

And if someone thinks it was misguided, big deal just don't listen to it. At a minimum he exposed a lot of people to Armstrong and some of those perhaps bought some Armstrong albums and perhaps that lead to buying other jazz albums. And Wonderful World, come on, that's not exactly one of Armstrong's important works.

Kenny G is not Wayne Shorter or Pat Metheny, he's not going to go down as an important jazz musician... so what, hardly anyone is.

If Pat Metheny is going to spew all his hatred on anyone that can't play as well or better than Kenny G; well that's going to be a long, long list; and get in line right behind me.

Pat Metheny is an amazing musician and I've got tickets to his upcoming tour. But as a good person, as a decent human being,... well he's a bully. I'd rather spend time with Kenny G.

(And I don't have any Kenny G music and don't listen to him, and I find it interesting that the San Diego smooth jazz station doesn't play him anymore, they do play Pat Metheny though... I find that funny).

[derek]

Originally Posted by fep

I think the Louie Armstrong thing is way overblown. I doubt Kenny G had any malicious intent and perhaps he thought he was honoring the memory of Armstrong. How that is pissing on someones grave is beyond me. This Armstrong issue seems to be just a way of rationalizing and justifying all ones hatred towards Kenny G.

And if someone thinks it was misguided, big deal just don't listen to it. At a minimum he exposed a lot of people to Armstrong and some of those perhaps bought some Armstrong albums and perhaps that lead to buying other jazz albums. And Wonderful World, come on, that's not exactly one of Armstrong's important works.

Kenny G is not Wayne Shorter or Pat Metheny, he's not going to go down as an important jazz musician... so what, hardly anyone is.

If Pat Metheny is going to spew all his hatred on anyone that can't play as well or better than Kenny G; well that's going to be a long, long list; and get in line right behind me.

Pat Metheny is an amazing musician and I've got tickets to his upcoming tour. But as a good person, as a decent human being,... well he's a bully. I'd rather spend time with Kenny G.

(And I don't have any Kenny G music and don't listen to him, and I find it interesting that the San Diego smooth jazz station doesn't play him anymore, they do play Pat Metheny though... I find that funny).

Of course you are entitled to your own opinion, and we will have to agree to disagree. My jaw dropped the first time I heard KG blowing over Pops. Well before I read Metheny's rant. Are you making your assessment of PM being a bully on this rant from over 10 years ago, or do you have another story?

I think to play over a dead man's tune while he is singing it is at least creepy. Heck I thought it was a bit creepy when Natalie Cole did it, but you could cut her a break, because it was her dad. For KG to do that to the most revered name in jazz is at minimum disrespectful.

I have no problem with KG playing his stuff, and getting rich. Good for him. His music is not anything I am interested in, but the OP asked about the hate. There are plenty of smooth jazz players, but Mr. Gorlick seems to be a magnet for ill will. I attribute it to the Armstrong thing.

[Stackabones]

JazzOasis.com - Pat Metheny on Kenny G

[rjtorres]

Thank you for your fast replies! I think it's the Louis Armstrong thing as well.

Although I find it interesting that no one ever said this (or maybe I replied too fast) - do you find his playing sharp? Some of my friends (and I could say some of them have really good ears) said he was playing some of his notes sharp, but I could not hear it. Not sure if I have a weak ear, or if it was just the hype of the "I hate Kenny G" movement.

[keith]

I guess I can understand someone being a bit disgruntled about him using Armstrong's version perhaps it even being opportunistic in nature but I have to agree with fep on this, what's the big deal? Why such vitriol? Is he formulaic?, sure he is. Is he successful? sure he is! He's not my preference in music but the vehemence you hear at times on this issue is really beyond me. There must be something better to do in life!

[bako]

People were disparaging him much earlier, after he made millions on Songbird.
The Louis Armstrong recording of course elevated this (the criticism) to an art form.

[JohnW400]

Originally Posted by derek

?

I think to play over a dead man's tune while he is singing it is at least creepy. Heck I thought it was a bit creepy when Natalie Cole did it, but you could cut her a break, because it was her dad.

Musical Necrophelia

[woyvel]

I'm glad to hear that Jimmy Bruno stuck up for Kenny G.

Just because one is famous for a particular type of style doesn't mean he doesn't have talent in another realm. It's that we don't hear of that artist being in that realm.

Many a classical, rock and even punk artists have turned their careers from the serious side of their origin to the business side of pop for the masses and become successful. How many on this site say they play pop or rock gigs for money but jazz is their love? Okay, so why shouldn't Kenny G do that?

His music is accessible, which is a statement to others in the jazz, fusion and shred community that produce music that appears to do nothing more than show their talent and chops. That's probably what pisses them off.

Another thing to think about: Who's gonna pick up more chicks, Kenny G blowing some 3-chord smoothy with barely a Dom7 for color, or Joe Fastfret at Guitar Center that does his Steve Vai take on "All The Things You Are"?

[fep]

Originally Posted by derek

Of course you are entitled to your own opinion, and we will have to agree to disagree.

Derek, and that's just one of the things I like about you... even when we disagree we can agree... to disagree. Cheers

[JohnW400]

Originally Posted by woyvel

Another thing to think about: Who's gonna pick up more chicks, Kenny G blowing some 3-chord smoothy with barely a Dom7 for color, or Joe Fastfret at Guitar Center that does his Steve Vai take on "All The Things You Are"?

Neither. It will be the guy with the hot set of wheels in the parking lot of the GS that gave a ride to his guitar playing buddy.

[derek]

Originally Posted by fep

Derek, and that's just one of the things I like about you... even when we disagree we can agree... to disagree. Cheers

But of course. We jazz guitarists can be as civilized as the next guy.

[timscarey]

Kenny G blows.

you have to realize that he just "took a solo" right on top of Louis Armstrongs Original recording and re-sold it as his own... He's from my home town and get's no respect other than as a buisiness man. I mean, longest note.... who the F_#* cares?

[Lambosoa]

Originally Posted by timscarey

I mean, longest note.... who the F_#* cares?

The folks who buy his stuff do care and that's the problem .

Anyway this guy sums up my thoughts on Kenny G.

[franco6719]

Kenny G. is an abomination IMO, but there is actually worse music in the world. Anyway, $$$$ and entertainment, not art and skill, is what it's all about in this category of music.

[yoshy321]

Originally Posted by Stackabones

JazzOasis.com - Pat Metheny on Kenny G

Pat metheny is right on too many levels in this little essay,

I completely understand why he is so distraught about the whole kenny G situation.

He is a completely medicore player, giving people the impression that jazz is nothing more than boring olde' elevator music, also ripping off one of the greatest artists in jazz history.


But hey, everyone has their own say...

[Drumbler]

Kenny G. has sold over 50 MILLION albums.

Over 50 MILLION!

I admit I own that first big album of his from way back.

I also think it must drive Pat Metheny crazy that KG has sold 50 MILLION albums. I have no idea how many albums Metheny has sold but I'd guess it's considerably less than 50 MILLION. Metheny is probably lucky to sell 20,000 of an album.

Metheny's music, while more cerebral, is not popular on a mass scale like KG's. I rarely listen to either one of them. Metheny is popular with some folks but I never quite got into his music.

Smooth jazz/KG or fusion/Metheny has little interest for me. KG is basically syrup smooth jazz like any other. It's really just pop music.

[derek]

Originally Posted by Drumbler

Kenny G. has sold over 50 MILLION albums.

Over 50 MILLION!

I admit I own that first big album of his from way back.

I also think it must drive Pat Metheny crazy that KG has sold 50 MILLION albums. I have no idea how many albums Metheny has sold but I'd guess it's considerably less than 50 MILLION. Metheny is probably lucky to sell 20,000 of an album.

Metheny's music, while more cerebral, is not popular on a mass scale like KG's. I rarely listen to either one of them. Metheny is popular with some folks but I never quite got into his music.

Smooth jazz/KG or fusion/Metheny has little interest for me. KG is basically syrup smooth jazz like any other. It's really just pop music.

Yes, smooth jazz is instrumental pop music imo. I sincerely doubt it makes any difference to Pat how much Mr. Gorlick has made in record sales. Pat has probably sold more records than any other living jazz artist, and does quite well financially.

That rant is over 10 years old, and the last interview I read with him that touched on it, was in GP a couple of years ago. The interviewer asked about it, and Pat did what he always does when asked about it, he distanced himself from it. Both he and KG have moved on from it.

Pat continues to compose, record and tour. I haven't heard anything of KG in a while. Is he still on the scene?

[mangotango]

Well, he was playing on the TV at the weekend...playing golf...

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Whenever I tune to the channel on cable TV that has the program listing scrolling by, they are playing smooth jazz in the background. So now whenever I hear Kenny G, I automatically see if it's time to watch "Diners, Drive ins and Dives".

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Originally Posted by mangotango

Well, he was playing on the TV at the weekend...playing golf...

According to Wikipedia, he has a golf handicap of only "+0.6". We should encourage him to play golf more often

By the way, did you know his last name was Gorelick? People known by one name or only initials irk me.

-- BDLH

[Goofsus4]

Kenny G is a scratch golfer??? Wow. More time on the instrument, less time on the links, Kenny...

[Drumbler]

Kenny G. is pretty much the creator of smooth jazz I guess.

He's to blame.

[derek]

Originally Posted by Drumbler

Kenny G. is pretty much the creator of smooth jazz I guess.

He's to blame.

I think it predates him quite a bit, though maybe not the name. We have had discussions in the past about how adult contemporary or easy listening music morphed into what we know as smooth jazz. Chuck Mangioni, Herb Alpert, Sergio Mendez and Brasil 66, and others brought us some pretty poppish instrumental music long before Mr. Gorelick ever put a horn in his mouth.

One of our regulars here pointed out during that discussion that smooth jazz took more of an R&B feel or turn than the adult contemporary stuff from a generation ago, and I think that is right.

[JorgeBarnet]

Not much to say, but Mr. G is still taking time of our lives making us think ..."to be or not to be.... jazz" Is interesting to know how much space (paper and electronically) magazines and critics devote to the theme "Is this jazz or is it not?" Perhaps We must remember there was a time that if you were not “black” you can not play jazz, some other times where if you were not American you can not play jazz....! Imagine Latin-Americans, Europeans and Asians playing jazz (????) Yeak! Imagine how disgusting it could be for them…
Well some where and some when, people and critics used to have some weird ways of thinking about Jazz (besides if Jazz and improvisation can be taught or not) ... Jazz is like PC in some sense.. Perhaps few remember when IBM put the PC on the market (besides Apple and Amiga and Atari and...) They did not were able to register thru the patent office they "great invention" and soon it become cloned by other companies from USA and outside USA... Have someone of this forum perhaps remember the term "100% (IBM) Compatible"... Many Computers had it stick on their surface... So will be some Jazz compatible label to stick in to our music? I personally love Jazz because of the Bebop lines, bending notes, grooves and harmonies... but there is some European music labelled and blessed as Jazz that does not have any or too much of my personal taste selection elements... Perhaps we must be open minded and not become Jazz’s Taliban?

[Drumbler]

Jazz is music, but not all music is jazz.

[Sailor]

Goofsus....best post yet.

[franco6719]

Originally Posted by JorgeBarnet

Not much to say, but Mr. G is still taking time of our lives making us think ..."to be or not to be.... jazz" Is interesting to know how much space (paper and electronically) magazines and critics devote to the theme "Is this jazz or is it not?" Perhaps We must remember there was a time that if you were not “black” you can not play jazz, some other times where if you were not American you can not play jazz....! Imagine Latin-Americans, Europeans and Asians playing jazz (????) Yeak! Imagine how disgusting it could be for them…
Well some where and some when, people and critics used to have some weird ways of thinking about Jazz (besides if Jazz and improvisation can be taught or not) ... Jazz is like PC in some sense.. Perhaps few remember when IBM put the PC on the market (besides Apple and Amiga and Atari and...) They did not were able to register thru the patent office they "great invention" and soon it become cloned by other companies from USA and outside USA... Have someone of this forum perhaps remember the term "100% (IBM) Compatible"... Many Computers had it stick on their surface... So will be some Jazz compatible label to stick in to our music? I personally love Jazz because of the Bebop lines, bending notes, grooves and harmonies... but there is some European music labelled and blessed as Jazz that does not have any or too much of my personal taste selection elements... Perhaps we must be open minded and not become Jazz’s Taliban?

I think you are confusing the people on this thread with the "neo-traditionalist" movement of Wynton Marsalis and his followers? Personally, I don't even care if "Kenny G." calls himself a "smooth jazz" musician. It's just that I don't like the man's music and I find his arrogance and pretentiousness offensive. His whole shtick is about making money by repeating formulaic and simplistic patterns that "dumb down" the audience in musical terms. He is an entertainer interested in making money. If that's what "smooth jazz" is about, then that it one type of jazz that I do not have much sympathy with.