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Hello. I have a 1998 Herb Ellis ES-165. The model with a single humbucker. However, I prefer the style of the 175 tailpiece over the original 165 tailpiece. Would this swap out with no issues? In particular, would the screw holes that attach them both be in the exact same locations? I have no ES-175 models around here to check. Thanks in advance.
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12-07-2017 06:33 PM
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In particular, would the screw holes that attach them both be in the exact same locations?
If you are referring to the original art deco-style zigzag tailpiece: yes, as in this example (https://reverb.com/item/6462606-gibson-es-165-herb-ellis-1996-sunburst):
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I would depend on the manufacturer, I would think. I have a bunch of these guitars and tailpieces lying around-I'll look at a bunch of them and let you know what I find.
Originally Posted by wengr
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Remember that the Es165 Tail piece that Gibson uses is not made by Gibson. Mine blew up as they sometimes do and when I contacted Gibson they suggested I get a replacement from all parts or stew Mac. My 165 is a 96 or 98… I can’t remember.
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I have 4 guitars with the zig-zag tailpiece: an ES165, a VOS ES175, the Epiphone ES175 and an old Epiphone Zephyr Regent. I compared the hole layout--the 3 screw holes and the end-pin hole--with the tailpiece on a Gibson ES175 and on two aftermarket tailpieces that look identical to the Gibson.
The holes do not match up. The top two holes are spaced the same horizontally, but the space between them and the bottom hole is different and the hole for the end-pin is not in the same place. To replace it would require some drilling.
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Gibson does not make tailpieces, these or any others, AFAIK. They're purchased from outside suppliers.
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I wanted to replace the zig zag with the 175 style tailpiece, however Lawson-Stone indicates it's more invasive than I would be willing to accept.
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Do you mean the L7 style tailpiece that was on older 175s?
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Yes I think so. The L7 and 175 TP do look the same in pics, but I can't say for sure that they are exactly the same. they were like that in 1998 iirc, so it would be taking the zigzag off and replacing it with the same era 175/(L7?) style. Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
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Tomorrow I'll try to get pictures so you can see what might be involved. Originally Posted by wengr
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Here's what I did. My VOS 1959 ES175 has what appears, to me, to be the identical tailpiece to my ES165, at least on the mounting end. The zig-zag is more authentic on the VOS model than the 165 but that's a different matter.
The VOS uses a removable end-pin, so I pulled it and made a direct rubbing of the mounting plate. I then put that side-by-side with the mounting plate of the traditional ES175 tailpiece, which I've compared to my 2016 ES175 for comparability.
So here's the photo of the two side-by side, and you should be able from this to assess the size of the job in replacing the tailpiece.
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From that it appears that one would have to redrill the two top screw holes. The endpin hole and the bottom screw hole appear to be the same, but that leaves the top holes off. I printed the image and cut out the parts to overlay them, and from a quick check, that's what it seems like to me. There may be other tailpieces available somewhere with the same hole layout, but I wouldn't bet the rent money on it.
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Lawson-stone, this is really helpful and very much appreciated. Your helpfulness has saved me from ordering one somewhere, only to find that it does not fit. I don't think that my dislike of the zigzag merits taking a drill to the guitar. Many thanks, Greg Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Here's what I did. My VOS 1959 ES175 has what appears, to me, to be the identical tailpiece to my ES165, at least on the mounting end. The zig-zag is more authentic on the VOS model than the 165 but that's a different matter.
The VOS uses a removable end-pin, so I pulled it and made a direct rubbing of the mounting plate. I then put that side-by-side with the mounting plate of the traditional ES175 tailpiece, which I've compared to my 2016 ES175 for comparability.
So here's the photo of the two side-by side, and you should be able from this to assess the size of the job in replacing the tailpiece.
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If one were to use the same end pin hole, and just redrill the two top most holes, would that not elevate the 175 TP up off the guitar top more than intended? Originally Posted by sgosnell
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That's how it looks to me. Honestly, it's a Gibson. I just wouldn't go taking a drill to it unless I knew exactly what I was doing. Even then, it's like taking a file to a Mercedes... I just wouldn't go there. Originally Posted by wengr
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Elevating a TP to match the holes location may have an effect on the break angle and most likely the tone.
On my Tal for instance, the L7/175 style TP is screwed 3/16 higher in relation to the top rim as opposed to some other instrument where the hinge is basically touching the rim.
Neck angle on Gibson being not always consistent might explain why on some guitar the TP is screwed higher or lower to maintain a certain break angle along with the bridge height.
Guitar geometry can be tricky as too much downward pressure caused by a steep break angle can literally choke the vibrations of the top and not enough can lower those vibrations.
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Elevating the tailpiece may have other on for scene consequences. You will change the point on the tp where it meets the top of the guitar and may cause the tp to deform. You are also giving the string more leverage to deform the tp and possibly damage the top by crushing it. You really want the hinge as close as possible to the top. I replaced my busted 165 tp with a trapezoid from China 20-30$ IIRC.
It’s Sunday. I might have time to compare the two and let you know
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