The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary

View Poll Results: Backing Tracks for live gigs

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  • Agreed

    40 36.36%
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    70 63.64%
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  1. #226

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    Alright,I'll confess. When I was making a living off of gigging in the 80's, life was good around Detroit. Lots of gigs. If you had a tuxedo, the money was great. You could drop in on a reading gig for 1 to 200$ a night almost any weekend.(thats about a million dollars in todays $)I played a single 3 to 4 nights during the week and 2 to 3 big money gigs on the weekends. Then the DJ thing happened and all of a sudden I was painting houses. I made and used backing tracks,played any kind of music that would pay until things smoothed out. I still use a drum machine at home but no more on a gig.

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  3. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by gitrman
    A backing track is not live!
    It is if you made it as part of the creative process, or if you are using a looper. Downloaded tracks are not live, that is true.

  4. #228

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    It's a reality nowdays that you are going to be asked if you'll do such a gig at some point. I 've never done it with backing tracks (no, i've done a couple of corporate gigs ), but i do it often with loopers, sometimes playing creatively (meaning "composing" parts with the looper), sometimes less so, using it only for one guitar part.

    I think i'd still enjoy the backing track thing if the player was nice, but it gets boring fast.. The loopers i don't mind, it limits the music in one way, broadens it in another.

    Also for me it has to do with the style of player you are. Personally i 'm not that good in the solo jazz guitar Joe Pass style to hold a varied audience interested over a whole gig. If however i do it with a looper, people seem to love it, as for one the looping thing is impressive, and i can play much more varied. So for my thing loopers do work!

    For example, one of my last solo gigs here (there's a violinist on some tunes too)..

    Vlatos Jazz June 2019 - YouTube

  5. #229

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    It's all about eliminating work for other musicians, disguised as work for you.

  6. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    It's at least half live.

    That means that it's also at least half dead.

  7. #231

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    at least half live == at most half dead
    ;-)

  8. #232

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  9. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    It's all about eliminating work for other musicians, disguised as work for you.
    I live in a rural area, for some reason either the musicians play church music contemporary style which is basically 1645 chord patterns (yawn) about 90+ percent of the time, or country music which is 3 chords so, and since people are more interested in watching The Boob Tube and playing computer games the musicianship around my area is severely lacking.

    So for my own purposes and not for performance I like a backing track if I can find one. I do have some old abersald CDs that I can plop on the player but for the most part there are no bands or get together kind of functions around my location.

    Even the drum circles are at a very basic beginning level and it seems just about everyone at the local drum circles are rhythmically challenged (to put it nicely).

    So I'm not taking any work away from anybody however, there are a couple restaurants around here that on rare occasions feature guitarists and unfortunately they too are using backing tracks for the couple of reasons that I mentioned above and the setup area in most of these restaurants is usually an extremely small footprint.

  10. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    It's all about eliminating work for other musicians, disguised as work for you.
    That is true.

  11. #235

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    But many times it is also work for one musician where it would be work for none... Most of the horn players that i know who often do solo sax+tracks gigs are more than happy to suggest playing as a duet for much less money per musician, but it is an offer very seldom taken..

  12. #236

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    So why hire a guitar when you can get sax?


  13. #237

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    I don't make a living at playing music, so this comes from the perspective of an audience member. I have noticed that street musicians are using backing tracks more and more. Eventually it just seems "normal" that people are in the Metro noodling like I did in high school and expecting people to drop them money. Until you hear someone play without a backing track. Then I'm compelled to stop and listen. I would rather hear someone play a sparse solo arrangement that jam to a track. One violin, one guitar, I even heard a girl singing opera a cappella. Mesmerizing.

    I assume some of the musicians playing with backing tracks were quite good in their own right. It just didn't make any impact on me. Its like listening to background recorded music. The addition of one live performer didn't really change my perception of it being background music. I know I would feel the same way if they were playing at a bar or wedding. In fact, if the band at my wedding had showed up with an iPad and just jammed along to BIAB I would have been furious.

    So righteous or cheating, good economics or a sell out, all I know is that as an audience member I tune out musicians playing with a backing track.

  14. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    So why hire a guitar when you can get sax?

    No better than a DJ and just as annoying.

  15. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Jazz involves musical dialogue between accompanists and soloists.

    Backing tracks do not.

    solo jazz requires no musical dialogue between people.

    I use tracks for senior gigs, because their budgets and spaces do not allow for bands except rarely. I make my own tracks, no downloaded cheese. basic bass and percussion; I play the bass into the recorder, and overdub percussion parts on top of a decent drum track. Occasionally a little guitar or keyboard overdubbing. the rec directors that hire me always rehire me, because the audience likes the rhythmic nature of my act, along with the tunes I choose. I'm competing with no bands, taking no work away from anybody, and providing a real nice hour for shut-ins and the elderly. sue me.

  16. #240

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    I don't make a living at playing music, so this comes from the perspective of an audience member. I have noticed that street musicians are using backing tracks more and more. Eventually it just seems "normal" that people are in the Metro noodling like I did in high school and expecting people to drop them money. Until you hear someone play without a backing track. Then I'm compelled to stop and listen. I would rather hear someone play a sparse solo arrangement that jam to a track. One violin, one guitar, I even heard a girl singing opera a cappella. Mesmerizing.

    I assume some of the musicians playing with backing tracks were quite good in their own right. It just didn't make any impact on me. Its like listening to background recorded music. The addition of one live performer didn't really change my perception of it being background music. I know I would feel the same way if they were playing at a bar or wedding. In fact, if the band at my wedding had showed up with an iPad and just jammed along to BIAB I would have been furious.

    So righteous or cheating, good economics or a sell out, all I know is that as an audience member I tune out musicians playing with a backing track.
    You're in a tiny minority.

  17. #241

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    I am also in the tiny minority that does not like prepared backing tracks on live gigs.

    And I am also in many other tiniest minorities with most of my pfererences in today's world.



    By the way as a guy from the audience I like inventive and creative live work with looper.

  18. #242
    I play retirement centers solo a lot and m y audience really enjoys me playing along standard hit songs from the past. But I also do about one third of my program solo guitar jazz,blues,country and classical. I get a lot of return bookings. When the cash register is ringing the cat is swinging!!! I often close with Kenny Rogers The Gambler and the audience claps along sometimes and really enjoy themselves which is giving them what I am paid for.

  19. #243

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    Steve, do you use tracks? And do you sing?

  20. #244

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    It's all about eliminating work for other musicians, disguised as work for you.

    such whining. it's all about living in the real world. today I played a nice gig with a quartet, a jazz gig. tomorrow I might play a gig the I dug up and booked, and I will use my backing tracks, because I like them, since I made them, and because my audience likes what they hear. I have put exactly zero musicians out of work, since the ones that would play for $50 would be worse than nothing at all.

  21. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave70
    Hah, you're probably right about that. It's the musicians who work hard at sounding good, without tracks, who are most likely irritated by the ones that are "cheating".

    That may be so, but nothing is preventing them from utilizing the technology to get more work. I still do occasional solo gigs without tracks, sometimes with a looper, but given the pandemic, preventing losing my house by creating my own backing tracks seems like a win-win. As for the boring part, when one makes his own, one can change them in many ways, our one can, like I do, carry 150 tunes; generally, only 30 or so will be used in the course of a gig. I can literally perform 8 45-minute sets without repeating, and have done so.

  22. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I was reading a review of a Taylor Swift concert the other day (someone's got to do it), and it sounded as if she only had a live band on stage part of the time, some of the performance was with a backing track:

    "There were no musical revelations from the new material, no nuance or interpretation from the CD-like backing tracks and band. Swift seemed content to repeat the album's performances, metronomic and dutiful..."

    I find it incredible that people will now pay shed-loads of money to see someone without a real band on stage, and not feel short-changed. But I suppose it's now the norm for these sort of pop stars.
    I think worse than hat are the Broadway shows that have minimal live music for their runs. I certainly won't pay top dollar for a rhythm section and 3 keyboardists and pre-recorded tracks.

  23. #247

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    That may be so, but nothing is preventing them from utilizing the technology to get more work
    I think it is crucial point...

    In my humble opinion it is desirable in the context of such discussion to differentiate for ourselves things professional musicians do to get more work and things they do to get musical artistic achievements together...

    Mixing it can be misleading a bit.

    I one feels 'cheated' or passed over by backing track player because the last got more work it is one thing... and here of course one can say: learn to use technology to get more work

    But some can feel 'cheated' from musical point of view... in that case technology argument does not fit. It is not about more worm bit about more music...

    I can understand that it can be a tool to get more work and earn living better but then the next thing should be to align it with one's musical aspiration.

    Whatever we say real music in man starts and ends up on the parlour late night unplugged noodling... this is what should be researched on ourselves, developed and brought up to the public performance


    Professional musicians life can be tough, easy to lose the track of that deeper music source...

  24. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I was reading a review of a Taylor Swift concert the other day (someone's got to do it), and it sounded as if she only had a live band on stage part of the time, some of the performance was with a backing track:

    "There were no musical revelations from the new material, no nuance or interpretation from the CD-like backing tracks and band. Swift seemed content to repeat the album's performances, metronomic and dutiful..."

    I find it incredible that people will now pay shed-loads of money to see someone without a real band on stage, and not feel short-changed. But I suppose it's now the norm for these sort of pop stars.
    It is interesting. Pop is is even more produced or 'fake' now. It took me a while to figure out what was going on while watching a billie eilish show with her singing with a drummer and her multi instrumentalist bro - ohhh they're playing to a track. Same with a 21 pilots show. Fully produced music coming out with 2 guys on stage lol. No musicians off stage, not lip syncing, their parts are live, they're playing to a track..

  25. #249

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint 55
    It is interesting. Pop is is even more produced or 'fake' now. It took me a while to figure out what was going on while watching a billie eilish show with her singing with a drummer and her multi instrumentalist bro - ohhh they're playing to a track. Same with a 21 pilots show. Fully produced music coming out with 2 guys on stage lol. No musicians off stage, not lip syncing, their parts are live, they're playing to a track..
    I've been following this closely since the mid-80's. We had to. I don't begrudge anyone for doing what they have to to get work. It comes down to the policy of the venue.
    I'd be bored with anything less than the usual setup for live music. It's just not my business what other people do. Hop on technology or someone else will.
    It's a business and businesses downsize.

    I'm glad I was born in a time when bands mattered. It wasn't going to last. I know one guy who got into midi and he made gobs of money as a solo act. More power to him.
    He's a great singer, in Japan.

  26. #250

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    I've been following this closely since the mid-80's. We had to. I don't begrudge anyone for doing what they have to to get work. It comes down to the policy of the venue.
    I'd be bored with anything less than the usual setup for live music. It's just not my business what other people do. Hop on technology or someone else will.
    It's a business and businesses downsize.
    I agree partly... but I find it is also very specific (maybe to some degree American?) mentality when 'business is bisiness' is a sort of explanation and justification for the things we probably would not accept otherwise.

    Please, do not take me wrong -- I just think that this situation is more complex that it may seem... market relationships can be good for artists and can be even a good measure of artistic value but only in society where those who pay for the art have high aesthetic demand as it was in renaissance epoch for example: the consumers group (the payers) was relatively small but with highly sophisticated refined tastes and artistic ambitions that they often even realized through artists they attracted to work.
    To some degree artists were also on the market those days but only values of this market were different.
    They invested huge money in bulding an exceptional chaple for a small relique, or were ready to hire best composer to write new music all the time - sometimes they did it because it was a 'must' for their social position, sometimes they really had aspiration for that... but both cases show the social importance of those values.
    this situation beag gradually changing in late renaissance - in baroque time opera became probably first professional democratic genre that depended more on direct sales of tickets that patrons.

    Today the market is completely like that.. .as the main consumer is majority it is obvious that it dregs the level downwards, as artists depend on direct sales they try to meet expectations of the majority -- more or less..

    Jazz is probably the first genre that came out of totally popular commercial area and became an artistic event.
    And I think it is often a problem today too that jazz players still think in terms of general marketability of their art whereas it is not more goods in the market.
    It is a value that should be supported by funds, universities, patron, goverment.

    But since in real practice jazz performance often is marketed (and actually being performed) in the same market and places that pop music is... the mentality still lives on.


    I also think that accepting some things just because it is business is not the best path in art...

    after all I know a few highest level classical and jazz musician who shifted to amateur performance (recording and occasional gigs - today there are enough ways in big cities to find yourself smaller audience ( except pandemics of course)
    getting most income from other activity (either teaching, or business, or some other daytime job) and they seem more happy like that.
    Morton Feldman and Charles Ives are two most important American composers for me and they both had main income from non-musical activity and they seemed to be happy enough with that... they did not have to make deals with their artistic aspirations to earn money.
    They clearly realized it.

    Again I do not repproach anyone... how would I dare? People have to maintain their families.
    it is rather an open discussion...

    I do not know the right solution
    Last edited by Jonah; 04-26-2021 at 06:15 AM.