The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I'm thinking of buying this archtop kit, but I shall hold off just in case anyone has any other suggestions. I bought a really cheap archtop that turned out to be total rubbish. It looked quiet nice so I bought a better tailpiece and tuners. It had P90s, and one was changed for a much better one, so I bought another better pickup, and made a nice loom with shielded cable and better pots, caps, and a better switch, but then realised that when I put on heavier strings that the truss rod didn't work. I planed off the fingerboard, but it turned out to be really thick so to get the correct height I would have to add a shim to get the board at the correct height (this was one of the reasons the truss rod didn't work, the groove in the neck was too shallow due to the neck being too thin, so the nut was ground down before the very thick fingerboard was glued on. The other reason was that the truss rod nut was welded to the rod on the truss rod for some bizarre reason!!!), so I decided to take the finish off the neck. That's when I found that the majority of the neck heel was actually filler!! This was from the factory! I had never done a Pete Townsend on a guitar so I reduced it to matchwood on the patio. Very cathartic.

    Therefore I have some reasonable hardware to go into an archtop. I want this to be a cheap guitar that can get bashed without worrying too much hence thinking about this cheap kit. I will need to fill the holes and perhaps even slightly alter the pickup routs to fit p90s, but I am pretty good at woodwork, and pretty good at spraying finishes so I can hide most of it behind a sunburst. I am holding off as I would really like to buy something that has no holes in it so I can cut all my own holes for switches and pickups, and I really don't want all the hardware that comes with. Does anyone have any leads for unfinished archtop bodies that may be suitable please? Otherwise I will buy this and butcher it about to match my wishes. Many thanks.

    complete Building set for Semi E-Guitar - Jazz Guitar - GSH | eBay

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  3. #2

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    i like this line from your kits product description-

    Body: maple, arched ceiling and floor

    makes me want to live inside an old epi zephyr!...haha

    matt c recently did a build off a pre-made body...sure he'll chime in with good info

    here's that thread-

    D I Y Semi hollow body guitar


    cheers

  4. #3

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    Building a kit is a great way to learn about guitar construction. Hands on assembly, finishing , fret work , set up and wiring are all important steps for any guitar build. As I have said before it is the neck that is the unknown with these kits. With a kit at least you can inspect and test the neck before you glue it to the body. Keep in mind you may need to return the guitar if the neck is bad. The kits shipped from China are often the least expensive but returning to China is very expensive so you can't send it back. The necks are OK but I did get one that was warped and the wood quality can vary wildly so it is nice to see a photo of the neck you will get and not just a stock photo. The kits are fun to build and a great way to learn. Take your time and you should end up with a good guitar at a very good price. The cost for the beginner can be higher as you will need glue, finish supplies and a few basic tools. I have seen plywood archtop guitar bodies on ali express but they seem to cost almost as much as the complete kit.

  5. #4
    Hi Matt,

    Thanks for the advice. I am not a total novice. I am not as experienced as you but I am a reasonably seasoned hobbyist, having restored a number of guitars and made quite a few pieces for smashed guitars, such as tops and necks. I think I am probably best at finishing really, and I really want a cheap archtop that isn't too precious, and the kits allows me to have a complete guitar in a short space of time. I really hope to make a complete archtop one day, but unfortunately I neither have the space for a proper workshop or the time outside of work and kids, but one day! I ordered the kit yesterday, it is from germany so not to bad to ship from the UK if it is a right off. One annoying thing is that the neck is already glued on I think, and I will be filling holes in the body as they are not where I want them. I hope to show the progress here and the finished article in a few months!!!

  6. #5
    For anyone that is interested I have received the kit. It is OK. It is quite rough round the edges but I'm sure it can be sanded to make it smooth enough to get a decent finish. There are no braces but there is a very solid sound post and a thick plate under where the bridge will go. It is quite small at around 15" across the bottom bout. The neck joint is weird. The thing that most irritates me is that the hole for the output jack is huge and very rough. I am planning to fill all the holes and redrill in better places and hope that a sunburst covers most of it. The f holes are fat. On all the these Chinese instruments the f holes are very fat. I plan to put in an extra layer of 2mm thick cream binding around the f holes to try and get them thinner and more elegant. When I lacquer it I will colour over the top of the f holes and don't intend to scrape the binding. It is odd having the neck joint at the 16th fret as the bridge will be higher up the body than normal. The general shape is OK, a bit flat across the top. I had a decent loom with some decent pickups and other decent parts that I intended to use, but I think I will use the pickups and pots from this kit and save the stuff I have for something better but this will be a nice challenge to see if I can make something decent from it. For £112 I can't complain. I hope to update progress as it goes on. I realise what I would like now is a 175 type body with no holes in that I can make my own neck for, or a bare 175 type guitar with no parts on it that I can restore, so if anyone has such a thing please let me know!!
    Archtop kit-img_0954-jpgArchtop kit-img_0952-jpgArchtop kit-img_0951-jpgArchtop kit-img_0949-jpgArchtop kit-img_0948-jpg

  7. #6

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    The guitar looks good. If the neck is straight and the truss rod works, you got a very good deal!

  8. #7
    Thanks Matt, the neck is straight and the truss rod works! I'm not anything to do with the seller, but I bought the kit from an ebay seller in Germany and it was no special deal, just the usual price from the shop, I imagine the shop must buy in sufficient bulk to get good prices from China!

    I've looked at your site and you make very beautiful instruments. If you don't mind divulging to an enthusiastic amateur, what glue have you found best for joining plastic binding to wood please? I have used weld on, it works but is very thick and gloopy. I've used DCM for binding plastic pickguards and I think that is the best stuff, but haven't tried it for joining wood to plastic. Everything else I have tried doesn't work apart from superglue which I don't like very much. Is there a magic glue that I haven't heard of please??

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by plasticpigeon

    I've looked at your site and you make very beautiful instruments. If you don't mind divulging to an enthusiastic amateur, what glue have you found best for joining plastic binding to wood please? I have used weld on, it works but is very thick and gloopy. I've used DCM for binding plastic pickguards and I think that is the best stuff, but haven't tried it for joining wood to plastic. Everything else I have tried doesn't work apart from superglue which I don't like very much. Is there a magic glue that I haven't heard of please??
    Thanks Plasticpigeon! Weld-on cement is made in a few different formulas. I use Weld-on 4784 vinyl adhesive, a clear, thin, syrupy fast drying cement it is available from LMII. It is a bit difficult to work with. It is almost too thin and syrupy. It is very strong and bonds plastic to non plastic. I have heard of mixing acetone with white glue but I have not tried it myself.

  10. #9

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  11. #10

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    [QUOTE=plasticpigeon;771996]For anyone that is interested I have received the kit. It is OK. It is quite rough round the edges but I'm sure it can be sanded to make it smooth enough to get a decent finish. There are no braces but there is a very solid sound post and a thick plate under where the bridge will go. It is quite small at around 15" across the bottom bout. The neck joint is weird. The thing that most irritates me is that the hole for the output jack is huge and very rough. I am planning to fill all the holes and redrill in better places and hope that a sunburst covers most of it. The f holes are fat. On all the these Chinese instruments the f holes are very fat. I plan to put in an extra layer of 2mm thick cream binding around the f holes to try and get them thinner and more elegant. When I lacquer it I will colour over the top of the f holes and don't intend to scrape the binding. It is odd having the neck joint at the 16th fret as the bridge will be higher up the body than normal. The general shape is OK, a bit flat across the top. I had a decent loom with some decent pickups and other decent parts that I intended to use, but I think I will use the pickups and pots from this kit and save the stuff I have for something better but this will be a nice challenge to see if I can make something decent from it. For £112 I can't complain. I hope to update progress as it goes on. I realise what I would like now is a 175 type body with no holes in that I can make my own neck for, or a bare 175 type guitar with no parts on it that I can restore, so if anyone has such a thing please let me know!!
    /QUOTE]

    I might have something you'd be interested in. Its the shell of a Sebring JS20S in Vintage Sunburst. It has original tuners, jack, selector switch, but no pickups, bridge or tailpiece.

  12. #11
    Hi Lawson, we seem to be of like mind when it comes to jazz guitars! The guitar body you have would be really interesting to me thanks. Shame we are on opposite sides of the globe! It would make a good basis for an es350 replica don't you think? Perhaps I shoudl PM you!

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by plasticpigeon
    Hi Lawson, we seem to be of like mind when it comes to jazz guitars! The guitar body you have would be really interesting to me thanks. Shame we are on opposite sides of the globe! It would make a good basis for an es350 replica don't you think? Perhaps I shoudl PM you!
    A poor mans ES 350 is what I've been hanging on to it for. A couple P90s would do the trick.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  14. #13
    I have decided to bind the f holes with 2mm thick binding to try and make them a bit thinner. Here is one of them done. Subtle but I prefer it!
    Archtop kit-kit2-jpg

  15. #14
    I've been making slow progress with this due to other projects, mainly restoring the sash windows in my house, but here it is with both f holes bound. I used 2mm cream binding which was very hard to bend to such a tight radius but I got there in the end. I don't understand why these far eastern guitars have such large f holes, it makes the guitars look like toys. I don't intend to scrape the f hole bindings, I want to spray over them, and I'm hoping that an early 50s burst will cover enough of them not to show the binding too much. Now I have to fill all of the holes as they are all in the wrong place, and the ones in the headstock are too big. Again, I don't understand why there are any holes at all, almost everyone has a drill, and it would make things much easier. Turning up plugs to fill the holes will be a right pain.
    Archtop kit-kit4-jpg

  16. #15

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    The guitar looks much better with the smaller F-holes plasticpigeon. I agree it's stupid the way they drill these kits out. I noticed some of the semi hollow body kits have a few less holes pre drilled than others. Kits can sometimes be more effort to build than a scratch build.

  17. #16
    Thanks Matt. I also need to add section onto the heel, and plug a hole in the rim which is enormous. I am beginning to think making one from scratch would be easier too. I started making an old Hofner out of a pre formed back front and sides. I have it together and bound and made a neck, but unfortunately I had to leave it in the shed over winter and the neck warped, but the body is ok. I got disheartened so started this one!

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by plasticpigeon
    Thanks Matt, the neck is straight and the truss rod works!


    It's not so easy to tell what a neck will do when strung up, or over time. From the photo of the heel, it looks that the neck is flat sawn, maybe a little on the skew at the heel. How's the orientation at the headstock end?
    When I'm looking at wood for a neck whether on a factory built or building from scratch, that's one of the things that's most important to me, even more than the figure on the back. A change in orientation along the length of the neck, especially a one piece neck, is one indicator that there's an inherent twist in the neck. Time may or may not let the tendency of the wood follow its nature. There're lots of factours of course but it's one to consider.
    I love kit projects. I've bought really cheap guitars from China, a seven string Les Paul for about a hundred bucks and it was, for all intents and purposes, a kit guitar; an exercise in hardware replacement. When I was through, I had a very satisfying workhorse. But over time, the trashy wood did take a toll and I could tell even from minimal mods that the woods were soft. It made me appreciate the fact that though it may look the same, the guitars of different woods do make a big difference.

    Best of luck and have fun! Next step might be to see if you can get an instrument "in the white" and a rough cut neck from somewhere like Lora and really make a top notch custom for yourself!

    David

  19. #18
    Hello TruthHertz, yes I think the neck is flat sawn. It has a scarf joint at the headstock, and the heel it a load of blocks stuck together. Here is the guitar with the holes filled now, which is how it should have been supplied!

    Archtop kit-kit-6-jpg

  20. #19

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    Excellent work, such work can only come from experience and passed down knowledge. Surely it must now be time to make your own, it could become a new profession.
    I found the arch carving planes but I may have use for them in the new year so will be in touch later to arrange posting them to you. This guitar making must be an addiction, I thought I was ready to stop. Never mind, life is so peaceful in the workshop.
    Graham

  21. #20

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    Nice work plasticpigeon! You might want to see if you can shape that sound post a bit to be less massive.

    I am in the middle of building a Chinese kit Steinberger copy. So far I have kept the body and neck from the original kit. The body needed more shaping just to make the bridge that came with the kit to fit. The holes for the bridge were also misaligned for both side to side and scale length positions. And I also filled the switch holes/slot because it was ill placed. Presently still waiting for the body to dry. I shot it with 4 coats of white appliance epoxy. It ends up being a hard cleanable surface. I can get it completely smooth, but am unsure how much gloss I can get out of it. I will see in a couple of weeks after it cures. The neck is actually very decent, but I had to do some shaping to kit where it was misshaped on the thumb side at about the 4th fret. Very slight defect but I was able to sand it out. Biggest pain so far was changing out the bridge. There are lots of variations of Chinese Steinberger copy tremolo bridges available. I got one that I like and am hoping that it can be set up to float. If anyone has any experience doing that I would appreciate some suggestions.

  22. #21
    Thanks Graham, why did you change your handle? If you don't need the planes they would definitely come in handy. I plan to make an archtop with the cedar for the next project.

  23. #22
    A few more pics, I have put an extra block at the back of the neck, redrilled the holes in some new places for the controls and switch, put some plastic binding on the point of the cutaway, unfortunately the binding is a different colour, but I should be able to make it up in the finish, and I left a couple of feint lines either side as I could have been more careful, and then laid everything out to get an idea of what it will look like. I reckon it will be ok with an early 50s sunburst with plenty of black on the heel and round the edges!

    Archtop kit-kit-11-jpgArchtop kit-kit-7-jpgArchtop kit-kit-8-jpgArchtop kit-kit-9-jpg

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by plasticpigeon
    I reckon it will be ok with an early 50s sunburst with plenty of black on the heel and round the edges!
    Yep - that's why sunburst was invented

  25. #24
    I'm quite hopefull of how this will turn out. I've found that the maple or whatever wood was used doesn't take stain too well. I've stained the rims walnut and the neck mahogany with self made spirit stains which turned out a bit patchy, they could do with a little more work but are quite pleasing so far. Also today I sprayed the sunburst. It's the first time I've done a 50s type burst but I'm pleased with the results. I have to wait an age now before I can mask the front and back in order to get the black blend on the heel, and then scrape the bindings and put the clearcoat on, so mabe it will be done in a month or 2!

    Archtop kit-kit-12-jpgArchtop kit-kit-13-jpg

  26. #25

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    Wow ! What a great job ! You are a master !